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      10-08-2017, 05:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon@ View Post
I didn't pay a dollar though
i thought you said it was "out of warranty." was it a service bulletin thing bmw did as a courtesy?
my fiance's 335d has a prop shaft cv bulletin out for it, i just don't know if it extends to the m3 or not.
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      10-08-2017, 06:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i thought you said it was "out of warranty." was it a service bulletin thing bmw did as a courtesy?
my fiance's 335d has a prop shaft cv bulletin out for it, i just don't know if it extends to the m3 or not.
Yeah the previous owner did it, right before I bought the car.

Propshaft cv bulletin applies only for a certain range of cars, and I don't think it applies for the ///M cars.
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      10-09-2017, 02:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Any gains from a carbon DS over an aluminum DS will be minimal. A 1 piece DS might feel a little better, though. The problem with the one VAC sells is that as far as I know, it is made by the Drive Shaft Shop and DSS does not use the stock rubber guibo at the trans end. This increased NVH, some say objectionably. I have the DSS chromolly one-piece on my E36M3 and hate it but the car is turbo and breaks stock shafts. There was another company selling E9xM3 one piece shafts in carbon fiber with guibo but they are no longer available. BMW used a one-piece CF shaft with guibo on the current M3 but is reportedly going back to aluminum.
VAC isn't made by Driveshaft shop. VAC sells a DCT version and driveshaft shop never had a sample to make a dct version.

I believe it is made by Mfactory's supplier if you search on the E46 forum.
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      10-09-2017, 07:37 AM   #26
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Ok. That would be important to know since DSS does away with the guibo and that risks NVH on most of its shafts and there were reports of people complaining about the DSS shaft. I just checked DSS and it looks like it is using CV joints at either end though still no guibo, which may be better than the DSS shaft I have on my E36M3 that has a CV at one end and U joint at the other and no guibo. I think the MFactory shaft looked good, and retained the guibo at the trans end.

Last edited by pbonsalb; 10-09-2017 at 07:55 AM.
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      10-09-2017, 08:24 AM   #27
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I don?t know why anyone would run a DSS shaft. No guibo = noise and harsh. Plus, it is pretty expensive and isn?t even as close to being as light weight as Mfactory.
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      10-09-2017, 11:33 AM   #28
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People were trying them, because they were available before MFactory. Its the same prices as the MFactory. Don't know about the weight of the DSS CF vs MFactory CF. I agree the MFactory is the one to get, for the reasons already noted about retaining the guibo at the trans end to minimize NVH.
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      10-09-2017, 03:15 PM   #29
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I'm surprised that no one has even chimed in here yet with one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by h4nh View Post
VAC isn't made by Driveshaft shop. VAC sells a DCT version and driveshaft shop never had a sample to make a dct version.

I believe it is made by Mfactory's supplier if you search on the E46 forum.
But if it was made by Mfactory then why wouldn't it have the guibo like the MFactory one?
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      10-09-2017, 03:54 PM   #30
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If it was made by the MFactory supplier then it should be good. I bought the last eBay discounted one to find out. If it eliminates the guibo I will try it but might end up reselling it to a racer who does not care about nvh.
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      10-09-2017, 07:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordon@ View Post
I'm surprised that no one has even chimed in here yet with one...



But if it was made by Mfactory then why wouldn't it have the guibo like the MFactory one?
The oem guibo is retained instead of being replaced by a solid piece. (This would be my guess based on researching online.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
If it was made by the MFactory supplier then it should be good. I bought the last eBay discounted one to find out. If it eliminates the guibo I will try it but might end up reselling it to a racer who does not care about nvh.
Depends on the batch. Apparently they made a batch for VAC & Fall Line and they had issues Mfactory engineers had to fix. I'm guessing this is why they're not listed on the Fall Line / IND website anymore.

Sources:

Fall Line thread- http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1166291&page=3

Thread pertaining to Fall Line, VAC, Mfactory carbon drive shafts-
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...p?p=1067608336

Post #723 explains a lot.
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      10-09-2017, 08:32 PM   #32
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just to be clear- with the mfactory carbon shaft, you re-use your oem guibo. mine had ~53k on it and a dozen track days and looked perfect.
if you want to use the aftermarket guibo from revshift, you're going to feel some harshness.

mfactory shaft was 12.2 lbs, my oem shaft was 22.8 lbs. i weighed these on my bathroom scale and took pics. the DSS shaft weighs 20 lbs. thats an expensive $1,400 for 2.2 lbs and a solid drive shaft. i don't see the benefit. i have also heard of one of the DSS shafts failing from a track guy, but i forget who.

right now, mfactory is simply the front runner.
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      10-22-2017, 03:43 PM   #33
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I bought one of the eBay clearance VAC driveshafts. Great price but a risk since I was not certain what I was getting and did not want a DSS driveshaft that eliminated the guibo. Well, the driveshaft that arrived was one piece carbon fiber and retained the guibo. I think it is the same as Mfactory was selling in the group buy. Nice shaft. 12 lbs. Took me a little over 3 hours to install -- I have a lift and that made it easier. No fitment issues. Went right in without issue. I have a 6MT. Can't say I feel any dramatic differences. I had done the subframe and diff bushings a few weeks earlier and in contrast I definitely felt an improvement from those. But every little bit sometimes adds up and hopefully the light one piece shaft is helping. The good news is it's definitely not hurting -- no nvh change.
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      10-22-2017, 09:22 PM   #34
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Thanks for the review! Can't wait til M Factory get their new batch of shafts out.
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      10-22-2017, 09:22 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I bought one of the eBay clearance VAC driveshafts. Great price but a risk since I was not certain what I was getting and did not want a DSS driveshaft that eliminated the guibo. Well, the driveshaft that arrived was one piece carbon fiber and retained the guibo. I think it is the same as Mfactory was selling in the group buy. Nice shaft. 12 lbs. Took me a little over 3 hours to install -- I have a lift and that made it easier. No fitment issues. Went right in without issue. I have a 6MT. Can't say I feel any dramatic differences. I had done the subframe and diff bushings a few weeks earlier and in contrast I definitely felt an improvement from those. But every little bit sometimes adds up and hopefully the light one piece shaft is helping. The good news is it's definitely not hurting -- no nvh change.
3 hours is insanely fast! being 6mt probably helped a bit (having to put the dct in neutral with the car off is cumbersome). still though- good job.
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      10-22-2017, 10:41 PM   #36
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I use a step ladder propped against a lift arm to climb up to pull up and release the handbrake to loosen and tighten the bolts. I can lever the wrench on part of the trans at the guibo end but I can't get all of the diff end without rotating the shaft. Have done this a bunch of times on my turbo E36M3 so I am pretty good at it (after 4 diffs, 3 trans, 4 clutches, 5 driveshafts) and the procedure is the same. And I have had the midpipe and rear exhaust and heat shielding off the 08M3 a few times, so this was all pretty quick for me.
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      10-23-2017, 02:15 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I bought one of the eBay clearance VAC driveshafts. Great price but a risk since I was not certain what I was getting and did not want a DSS driveshaft that eliminated the guibo. Well, the driveshaft that arrived was one piece carbon fiber and retained the guibo. I think it is the same as Mfactory was selling in the group buy. Nice shaft. 12 lbs. Took me a little over 3 hours to install -- I have a lift and that made it easier. No fitment issues. Went right in without issue. I have a 6MT. Can't say I feel any dramatic differences. I had done the subframe and diff bushings a few weeks earlier and in contrast I definitely felt an improvement from those. But every little bit sometimes adds up and hopefully the light one piece shaft is helping. The good news is it's definitely not hurting -- no nvh change.
The problem w/all of these cf d/s's (E46 included) from both VAC & Fall-Line was that they were producing NVH above 100mph (well above the legal speed limits in most states, but not in Mexico), and apparently inferior manufactured joints (not the cf tube itself) were to blame. MFactory (YCW) had developed proprietary joints (even though similar looking) that did not suffer from additional harshness. I was a beta tester over on M3F, and I successfully tested their prototype cf d/s up to 170mph w/no additional NVH. The GB fell through due to legal conflict of interest issues w/their supplier, sooo...to my knowledge, the only 'good' cf d/s's produced were from MFactory. Now, some of the 'good joints' may have potentially found their way to either VAC or Fall-Line in the meantime.

Just curious, have you had your car up to speeds over 100mph yet? Any NVH above those speeds?
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      10-23-2017, 04:07 PM   #38
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Have been up to 100 with no issues but not much over yet. I will hopefully test soon. My understanding is that the first batch of driveshafts sold by MFactory and Fall Line and VAC are all the same -- what I have looks and weighs the same as what MFactory sold in the group buy for the first batch. MFactory thought it had an exclusive deal from the carbon fiber tube maker because MFactory's parent company, YCW, was supplying the billet front piece to the carbon fiber tube maker, but the carbon fiber tube maker was also selling the driveshafts to Fall Line and VAC.

I changed subframe a diff mounts about a month ago, so I know what those did -- they added some diff whine. I have to focus on the driveshaft now.

So far, I think the CF driveshaft adds a hollow sound at times, which is expected. It also reduces clunking at times and makes the power seem more direct and the shifting less clunky. However, at other times I do hear what may be some additional clunking. I have to isolate that with more driving -- I think it may be related to the hollow sound that I have noticed. A lighter driveshaft will transmit sound more than a heavier one.

What I don't feel is any noticeable increase in power like some have suggested. I think it probably transmits power better and I think I am feeling that. It could add a little bit through the slightly reduced rotational mass, but we are talking about a reduction from 22 to 12 lbs on a very small diameter, so I would expect any gains to be very minimal.
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      10-23-2017, 04:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Have been up to 100 with no issues but not much over yet. I will hopefully test soon. My understanding is that the first batch of driveshafts sold by MFactory and Fall Line and VAC are all the same -- what I have looks and weighs the same as what MFactory sold in the group buy for the first batch. MFactory thought it had an exclusive deal from the carbon fiber tube maker because MFactory's parent company, YCW, was supplying the billet front piece to the carbon fiber tube maker, but the carbon fiber tube maker was also selling the driveshafts to Fall Line and VAC.

I changed subframe a diff mounts about a month ago, so I know what those did -- they added some diff whine. I have to focus on the driveshaft now.

So far, I think the CF driveshaft adds a hollow sound at times, which is expected. It also reduces clunking at times and makes the power seem more direct and the shifting less clunky. However, at other times I do hear what may be some additional clunking. I have to isolate that with more driving -- I think it may be related to the hollow sound that I have noticed. A lighter driveshaft will transmit sound more than a heavier one.

What I don't feel is any noticeable increase in power like some have suggested. I think it probably transmits power better and I think I am feeling that. It could add a little bit through the slightly reduced rotational mass, but we are talking about a reduction from 22 to 12 lbs on a very small diameter, so I would expect any gains to be very minimal.
Yep, the tube manufacturer was two-timing (or would that be three-timing?) them...not sure if either VAC or Fall-Line had knowledge of the indiscretion or not? Anyway, not sure about the E9X world, but in the E46 S54 world...everything that I had ever read about previous cf d/s attempts (including units from both VAC & Fall-Line) ended w/the tester complaining about NVH over 100mph.

I will be curious to hear your high speed test results w/the VAC unit...

Last edited by stosh1; 10-23-2017 at 05:06 PM.
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      10-23-2017, 05:27 PM   #40
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Interesting... So the driveshaft on the eBay link I had posted retained the OEM guibo?
What!?
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      10-23-2017, 09:33 PM   #41
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Yes. It was a risk but I decided to take the gamble.

I have a DSS shaft on my turbo E36M3 and it sucks above 100 mph. It does away with the guibo. I would not use it if there were other options but I have 700 rwhp and 600 lbs rwtq and twisted 2 stock shafts.
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