Replacing the 8" subs?

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by badfish

The Earthquake subs are very accurately rated on power. 300 watts max means 150 watts RMS. Do not exceed the rated power because the sub was simply not designed to handle all that extra power. Nousaine reviewed the sub and noted that the smell of glue when he exceeded the power spec. It's an efficient sub, more power won't help you get much more output.

That's because it was new. It goes away after time. ALL subs do this.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by badfish

The Earthquake subs are very accurately rated on power. 300 watts max means 150 watts RMS. Do not exceed the rated power because the sub was simply not designed to handle all that extra power. Nousaine reviewed the sub and noted that the smell of glue when he exceeded the power spec. It's an efficient sub, more power won't help you get much more output.

I don't use more power for more output. You can easily drive this sub to the end of its suspension with the rated 150W depending on the source material. More power means headroom and linear response through the volume range. I don't want to have to tune my system 2 different ways depending on if I'm going to listen to it loud or soft. I should be able to tune it one way and the response should be linear from low volume to high volume.

[badfish]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

That's because it was new. It goes away after time. ALL subs do this.

I know that smell you are referring to but there is a difference between the smell of melting/burning glue and warm glue. Tom noted that it was the glue melting and he had exceeded the power spec and the rated power spec was a good one. I actually chatted on the phone with one of their engineers who also advised me not to exceed the power spec.

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

I don't use more power for more output. You can easily drive this sub to the end of its suspension with the rated 150W depending on the source material. More power means headroom and linear response through the volume range. I don't want to have to tune my system 2 different ways depending on if I'm going to listen to it loud or soft. I should be able to tune it one way and the response should be linear from low volume to high volume.

Absolutely...

[quality_sound]

Hot glue is hot glue. If it smelled different it wasn't just the glue.

On another note, a new option to the SWS-8
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-132

I'd take this over an SWS-8 any day.

If you're looking for something better sounding there's this:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...roduct_ID=7195

The best part of the Rainbow midbass is it's less than 2" deep.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Hot glue is hot glue. If it smelled different it wasn't just the glue.

On another note, a new option to the SWS-8
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-132

I'd take this over an SWS-8 any day.

If you're looking for something better sounding there's this:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...roduct_ID=7195

The best part of the Rainbow midbass is it's less than 2" deep.

Both of those look like good options. I might try to model both of them to see how the computer thinks they would do. I'm trying to get specs on the Rainbow but their website is slow as hell. Do you think the Rainbow is geared more as a midbass than as a sub? Would these be a good option for someone not looking to supplement this with a trunk sub?

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Like Rockford has made anything worth a crap in the last decade? Puhlease. Earthquake and RF are both mid-fi at best.

Who said anything about Rockford?

[dvn]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Hot glue is hot glue. If it smelled different it wasn't just the glue.

On another note, a new option to the SWS-8
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-132

I'd take this over an SWS-8 any day.

If you're looking for something better sounding there's this:
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...roduct_ID=7195

The best part of the Rainbow midbass is it's less than 2" deep.

Hertz makes a great alternative as well: the Space 8


I've actually owned both these and the Rainbows but opted to go with the SWS' as they were a direct replacement.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Both of those look like good options. I might try to model both of them to see how the computer thinks they would do. I'm trying to get specs on the Rainbow but their website is slow as hell. Do you think the Rainbow is geared more as a midbass than as a sub? Would these be a good option for someone not looking to supplement this with a trunk sub?

Well the Dayton is a sub but the Rainbow is a midbass, and get this, under 2" deep. Woofers, etc has the specs for the Rainbow, Rainbow's site doesn't even list the X-Plain 8.

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Who said anything about Rockford?

The buttloads of people using them or the Alpine PDXs in this thread. The point was of all the threads I've seen where an SWS was used the only person using an amp substantially better than the quality of the subs was Billy with his DC 650.6. You were bagging on earthquake basically saying it's garbage. I'M saying that the RFs and PDXs everyone has such a boner for are garbage as well. You saying the Earthquakes are "not worthy" of them is beyond ludicrous.

Originally Posted by dvn

Hertz makes a great alternative as well: the Space 8


I've actually owned both these and the Rainbows but opted to go with the SWS' as they were a direct replacement.

I was told that Hertz discontinued the Space 8s. Interesting. Now if only I could find out the difference between the two Space 8 models...

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

I'M saying that the RFs and PDXs everyone has such a boner for are garbage as well. You saying the Earthquakes are "not worthy" of them is beyond ludicrous.

So you actually think using a $800 high-fidelity amp on the Earthquakes would not be a total waste? Come on! From an "SQ" standpoint, you would never in a million years be able to tell the difference between the PDX (or even RF) driving those subs compared to the Focal, NEVER!

[quality_sound]

You keep thinking that. I don't run class D amps for a reason. I have and I don't care for them. They simply have less control. It's a fact. The damping factor is much, much lower on a class D as is the slew rate and slew factor. Newer class D amps like the JL HDs are much better than something like the PDX in that respect, however.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

So you actually think using a $800 high-fidelity amp on the Earthquakes would not be a total waste? Come on! From an "SQ" standpoint, you would never in a million years be able to tell the difference between the PDX (or even RF) driving those subs compared to the Focal, NEVER!

What's your issue with the Earthquakes other than the brand name? Seems like you're hating on them just because you think the brand is cheap without actually having any experience with them. Just because its cheap, doesn't necessarily mean its crap.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

What's your issue with the Earthquakes other than the brand name? Seems like you're hating on them just because you think the brand is cheap without actually having any experience with them. Just because its cheap, doesn't necessarily mean its crap.

At $250+ a pair I would not say that they are cheap... they do perform better than any of OEM woofers with the same power, even with the Individual Audio just before the OEM amp going into protection.

SQ is an argument that it will be never settled, what works for me not necessarily will work for you and viceversa.

[kmarei]

i think the earthquake subs are a great deal
they sound very, very good
i think they sound as good as can be when you take into account the limitations of their location/enclosure etc
i think you'd be hard pressed to find something better that didn't involve removing the enclosure and fabricating something else
which is why they rock
ease of install Vs sound quality
they beat anything else
so they are not a fancy brand, big whopee
they sound good, period.

i think they should sell them to Focal
who slap on a FOCAL UTOPIA BE NO.8 on them
and charge you 6K$
then everyone will say how they sound soooo much better than the SWS-8

[quality_sound]

Given Dayton's track record I'll bet my ass they'll walk the SWS's. Oh, and only $200/pr brand new from an authorized dealer.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-132

[badfish]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

Given Dayton's track record I'll bet my ass they'll walk the SWS's. Oh, and only $200/pr brand new from an authorized dealer.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=295-132

Walk on them in a different enclosure maybe. Earthquake designed the subwoofer system for our cars. They are an easy fit, trying anything else would require a lot more work. If you're going to go through all that effort customizing you might as well put in a conventional subwoofer.

[kaigoss69]

Anyone who's ever held a REAL sub in their hands knows that the SWS is a lightweight. I mean the whole speaker weighs as much as the basket on a good sub, for crying out loud. The whole design is a COMPROMISE, period. Yes, it does sound decent in this particular application, and yes it is the best fit subwoofer you can put in there, but it is far from audiophile quality.

And yes, I am speaking from personal experience. I am not bashing the SWS, but you have to put things into perspective when someone is asking whether or not they should spend $800 on an amp that is audiophile quality and they're hooking it up to a speaker that is far from it.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

an amp that is audiophile quality and they're hooking it up to a speaker that is far from it.

well shouldn't that still sound better than a non-audiophile amp hooked up to the same speaker?
if not then the amp is hardly audiophile no?

that's like saying your speakers sound like shit, they are not worthy of having a CD as the source audio
surely any improvement is audible in the end
or its not an improvement

[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by kmarei

well shouldn't that still sound better than a non-audiophile amp hooked up to the same speaker?

Only if the amp is of worse quality than the sub. And this is difficult to do. The audible differences between good and bad amps is FAR smaller than the audible difference between good and bad speakers.

Originally Posted by kmarei

that's like saying your speakers sound like shit, they are not worthy of having a CD as the source audio
surely any improvement is audible in the end
or its not an improvement

No, it's like saying if it only can produce shit, then it does not matter if you had a filet mignon or a big mac the night before, in the end it is shit.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Anyone who's ever held a REAL sub in their hands knows that the SWS is a lightweight. I mean the whole speaker weighs as much as the basket on a good sub, for crying out loud. The whole design is a COMPROMISE, period. Yes, it does sound decent in this particular application, and yes it is the best fit subwoofer you can put in there, but it is far from audiophile quality.

And yes, I am speaking from personal experience. I am not bashing the SWS, but you have to put things into perspective when someone is asking whether or not they should spend $800 on an amp that is audiophile quality and they're hooking it up to a speaker that is far from it.

I've had more than my share of REAL subs however you wish to define it. Its obvious to pretty much everyone that the SWS doesn't compare to a conventional sub. The SWS is a purpose built sub and it performs well for the application it was designed. When you open up the criteria of how you evaluate it to include conventional subs, of course it not going to be able to hold its own because it was never meant to do that.

The reason for my system design using the SWS was that I wanted the best SQ I could get while not using any trunk space and maintaining the stock speaker locations. The DC650.6 was an easy choice because it gives me all I need in terms of control and adjustability as well as the power to run the speakers I wanted to run. My other option was a combo of a BitOne and LRx 5.1k but that combo is 2x the price of the DC650.6. When you're already compromising on the speaker choices and locations, there's no reason to spend the money on the more expensive combo. Basically the only thing I would get out of that combo is more power. While I could use more power on the mids and tweeters, I think the SWS is probably close to its limits at 250W each. Maybe one day when I feel like experimenting more I might try different amp and speaker combos but as of right now, I'm okay with what I got. Bottom line, the system I put together meets my design criteria and sounds pretty damn good while satisfying that criteria.

[808MGuy]

I tried running a model with the Dayton vs the SWS. For some reason, the SWS just seems to model very good. The Dayton models similar to most of the other woofers I've tried in the program like the ADMW, MW267, and some other very popular models. The Dayton is in red and SWS in orange.

Here's a free air response plot assuming a sealed enclosure of 0.7 cu ft (nobody really knows what the OEM enclosure models at so its just a guess):



Here's one with typical cabin gain applied

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by badfish

Walk on them in a different enclosure maybe. Earthquake designed the subwoofer system for our cars. They are an easy fit, trying anything else would require a lot more work. If you're going to go through all that effort customizing you might as well put in a conventional subwoofer.

What makes you think Earthquake OEM'd the drivers in our cars? They don't even build their own drivers, the SWS included. And no, not in a different enclosure.

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Anyone who's ever held a REAL sub in their hands knows that the SWS is a lightweight. I mean the whole speaker weighs as much as the basket on a good sub, for crying out loud. The whole design is a COMPROMISE, period. Yes, it does sound decent in this particular application, and yes it is the best fit subwoofer you can put in there, but it is far from audiophile quality.

Weight has NOTHING to so with quality. Just like having a huge voice coil has nothing to do with how loud a speaker will play. Aura makes some of the best subs on the planet and the NRT models don't weigh squat because they use a neodymium magnet, not a ferrite magnet.

And yes, I am speaking from personal experience. I am not bashing the SWS, but you have to put things into perspective when someone is asking whether or not they should spend $800 on an amp that is audiophile quality and they're hooking it up to a speaker that is far from it.

You do realize that distortion under roughly 10% is inaudible at frequncies that low, right? Also, if you put crap on top of crap on top of crap you just end up with a big pile of shit. If you use the best parts available, even if the best available is an SWS, the system as a whole will benefit.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

I tried running a model with the Dayton vs the SWS. For some reason, the SWS just seems to model very good. The Dayton models similar to most of the other woofers I've tried in the program like the ADMW, MW267, and some other very popular models. The Dayton is in red and SWS in orange.

Here's a free air response plot assuming a sealed enclosure of 0.7 cu ft (nobody really knows what the OEM enclosure models at so its just a guess):



Here's one with typical cabin gain applied

I'll have to look at these when I get home.