Another Gintani Stage 2

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by m33

Here's my dyno uncorrected ( on that day's current weather conditions )
And this is with my stock xpipe(93oct) in place at 6 to 6.5 psi pulley with a slight spike at the end of the rpm range( 100rpm span @ 8,300k rpm ) but it's peak whp was hit at 6.9lbs @ 8k rpm for arguments sake.
I'm currently uploading this from my iPhone when I get home I'll post up the 538ish whp dyno graph ( give or take a whp or two not sure of the exact figure but I know it's in the high 530ish whp range)
Which was done in the same day/dyno ( dynojet)

Thanks for the dyno chart, good info but normally you would compare DJ results with a CF, the norm is SAE, uncorrected does show actual conditions better though, and it appears it was nice and cool when you dynoed, much of the time uncorrected shows lower or similar #'s, yours went up a decent amount. I will say you ran a nice 60-130 based on these dyno results, so well done, or were those runs catless?

As far as going catless, another VT600 recently dynoed 545 SAE and 559 STD, according to Mikewads boost level and yours as well, one would assume he's around 7psi too, very nice #'s though. Regardless that's still short of Per's 580 and 594 dyno's, and the Korea car which dynoed 604whp with 200 cell cats at 7psi. No complaints, or accusations from me cars are different, maybe Per's responded better, the point is dyno's have varied on all the kits, I think that's already been universally discussed and agreed upon.

[m33]

Originally Posted by chris s

Jamie, where do you dyno around here?

Hit me up when your ready I'll take you to Pruven performance dyno jet the local ones are shady and inaccurate ..

[m33]

In all honesty I really don't care for the dyno number but it is a good monitoring tool.
My 60-130 was 8.3 with 2shifts ( 6MT) with alot of wheel spin in 3rd and 4th & I was catless when these numbers were achieved. Never got a chance to do it in 1 shift as Izzy(IMG ) did , he hit a 7.8 with stock xpipe ( really impressive ) ... Between that stretch getting hot and the snow I haven't been able to do so ...
Unfortunately I never got a chance to hit the same dyno jet after going catless but if I were to place a figure I would say the car is around 550 to 560 whp @ the same boost 6 to 6.5lbs but we'll see if I'm right when I dyno.

As for these euro spec cars putting higher figures I dunno what to say ....... Different gas quality & weather conditions maybe ....

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Thanks for the dyno chart, good info but normally you would compare DJ results with a CF, the norm is SAE, uncorrected does show actual conditions better though, and it appears it was nice and cool when you dynoed, much of the time uncorrected shows lower or similar #'s, yours went up a decent amount. I will say you ran a nice 60-130 based on these dyno results, so well done, or were those runs catless?

As far as going catless, another VT600 recently dynoed 545 SAE and 559 STD, according to Mikewads boost level and yours as well, one would assume he's around 7psi too, very nice #'s though. Regardless that's still short of Per's 580 and 594 dyno's, and the Korea car which dynoed 604whp with 200 cell cats at 7psi. No complaints, or accusations from me cars are different, maybe Per's responded better, the point is dyno's have varied on all the kits, I think that's already been universally discussed and agreed upon.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by m33

In all honesty I really don't care for the dyno number but it is a good monitoring tool.
My 60-130 was 8.3 with 2shifts ( 6MT) with alot of wheel spin in 3rd and 4th & I was catless when these numbers were achieved. Never got a chance to do it in 1 shift as Izzy(IMG ) did , he hit a 7.8 with stock xpipe ( really impressive ) ... Between that stretch getting hot and the snow I haven't been able to do so ...
Unfortunately I never got a chance to hit the same dyno jet after going catless but if I were to place a figure I would say the car is around 550 to 560 whp @ the same boost 6 to 6.5lbs but we'll see if I'm right when I dyno.

As for these euro spec cars putting higher figures I dunno what to say ....... Different gas quality & weather conditions maybe ....

Agreed about the dyno's, as you've stated before accurately on another forum your boost will change a bit with temps / conditions, and that 8.3 is still very good IMHO, especially for a 6speed with 2 shifts. If you can do it in one shift and beat what Izzy did, even better.

That's the one thing about Dyno Jets, the CF does give us a more accurate way to compare even with different weather conditions, but you can't compare STD with SAE, etc. You have to use the same CF. On the cars outside of the US, I hear you not sure what to say either, but regardless some cars are just stronger than others on the dyno.

[Jameson@Alpine]

This car is a beast!! Saw it in action Saturday!

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by mkPOTO

sounds insane and kinda like a vette

I wish we have corvettes in Taiwan to compare

[m33]

Drew

Come to think of it There is a difference when you compare a US spec car running US 91 or 93 AKI which contains ethanol and often has many additives VS euro 98 RON which is a superior fuel in terms of quality. The dynos done at ESS I believe are all done on 98 RON which would explain those cars making higher numbers than US cars. One thing I have not seen from the ESS euro dynojet is a difference of 50+ whp from a lower spec kit over a higher spec kit like this stage 2 and your stage 2 +. In fact all of the dynos made by ESS on their dynojet are all close if you compare the same kits. Also if you compare the Dynojet numbers from Arizona those numbers are all close to one another when comparing the same kit. You are comparing different ESS dyno's in different regions and different fuels with the same spec kit but the dyno in this thread is the same dyno in the same state run by the same people with different spec kits, not really the same thing. If ESS or AA dyno tested a lower spec kit and it made 55 whp more than a higher spec on their same dyno tested by them I think people would be asking the same questions and I dont believe the answer would be as simple as a software change.

I could maybe understand if your dyno was compared to another stage 2 + and the difference was 20 whp due to a different software file but I still do not believe there is anyway a car running 1.5-2.5 less psi and no water / meth can make 55 whp more with a simple software change on the same dyno with the same fuel over your car. This would mean that the software difference between your car and this one makes a 100 HP difference, its simply not possible. Considering the advantages in your kit Drew over this kit you should make 570 + whp on this same dyno if this car made a real 525 whp.

I suggest that Gintani make their dyno's in shootout mode so that there is no question as to the corrections used. I have not seen any corrections shown on the Gintani dynodynamics charts like Evolve and others have displayed. The truth is without this info it is all a big guess as to what corrections are being used and what the numbers should be on this type of dyno. Maybe when the owner of this car gets back to San Diego he can get the car dyno tested on his own and report back.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by m33

Drew

Come to think of it There is a difference when you compare a US spec car running US 91 or 93 AKI which contains ethanol and often has many additives VS euro 98 RON which is a superior fuel in terms of quality. The dynos done at ESS I believe are all done on 98 RON which would explain those cars making higher numbers than US cars.

In your case we are talking about 1 octane level difference between 98RON and 93US, 98RON is appox. 94US, also, PG has dynoed on race fuel, and Mike has tested race fuel and he said he saw no performance difference. Honestly I don't think the fuel difference would solely equate to such large differences in the dyno's, but that's just my opinion, regardless of the kit.

Originally Posted by m33

One thing I have not seen from the ESS euro dynojet is a difference of 50+ whp from a lower spec kit over a higher spec kit like this stage 2 and your stage 2 +.

Let's go by the psi level, not the spec, it's way too confusing, lol, if you look in the DDB, you will see that a car in Korea at 7psi vs. your 7.4 psi is making 604whp SAE vs. your 511 SAE, that is a 93whp difference, I don't think 1 octane, or 200 CEL cats will give you that much more power, do you? The other car running the same pulley as you, but catless, made 545 SAE, he's still down 59whp. What about the 6.5psi car on 97.5RON, roughly 93US, he made 570whp STD, stock cats, at 6.5psi, almost a full psi less than you that's not quite 55whp, but 44whp, same cat setup. No US car except PG's comes close to per and the Korea car, he's at 601whp SAE, and he has a stroker motor and only .75psi less than the Korea car at 604whp and 7psi. The next closest US car is Mikewads old setup with (5.5-6psi according to him) and a 100 shot of nitrous, he's at 560whp SAE, 44whp short of the of the Korea car which which has only 1 -1.5 psi more? I know Mike's kit was not intercooled at the time, but a 100 shot of nitrous vs. cooling and 1psi?

Originally Posted by m33

In fact all of the dynos made by ESS on their dynojet are all close if you compare the same kits. Also if you compare the Dynojet numbers from Arizona those numbers are all close to one another when comparing the same kit.

You have proven my point, I agree when you look at all the US cars, most all of them make the claimed #'s, and sometimes more, this is good stuff, but even with the same or better fuel, they are not making what the non US cars are making.

Did you not think with your VT625 that you were making 590whp? In that GTR thread you told the GTR driver that you were at 590whp? Honestly I can't blame you for thinking that was a possibility. Maybe a US car eventually will at 7psi on a DJ, or maybe they won't, but so far all of them have not and if they don't I don't think it matters, the ESS kit is doing very very well.

Originally Posted by m33

You are comparing different ESS dyno's in different regions and different fuels with the same spec kit but the dyno in this thread is the same dyno in the same state run by the same people with different spec kits, not really the same thing. If ESS or AA dyno tested a lower spec kit and it made 55 whp more than a higher spec on their same dyno tested by them I think people would be asking the same questions and I dont believe the answer would be as simple as a software change.

Yes I'm comparing ESS dyno's done in the US at different locations, and they are all pretty close, which again proves my point. We're talking DJ's, which have a CF, sure it's not perfect and there could be some differences, bad fans, etc., but that's why they call it "the standard" it is pretty close when comparing different dyno's, different locations that's what the CF is for. I think we've already established the fuel will not equate for the entire difference. Going into this without knowing what people have tested, I agree race gas should help,and Meth as well, I hear you, but myself and others have tried race fuel, no meth, and it appears it is not a huge gain like one would conventionally think.

Originally Posted by m33

I could maybe understand if your dyno was compared to another stage 2 + and the difference was 20 whp due to a different software file but I still do not believe there is anyway a car running 1.5-2.5 less psi and no water / meth can make 55 whp more with a simple software change on the same dyno with the same fuel over your car. This would mean that the software difference between your car and this one makes a 100 HP difference, its simply not possible. Considering the advantages in your kit Drew over this kit you should make 570 + whp on this same dyno if this car made a real 525 whp.

I was at 7.5 - 8psi in the DD's run and initial DJ runs, not 9. Jamie, why are you still using my intial DD's dyno's posted in this thread as a accurate reflection of what the car truly put down and still comparing them to these new dyno's, when I explained to you why they were inaccurate? Please read my explanation again if you want to understand why, if you disagree fine but did you not see the HUGE difference once the new intake, 1psi and new tune were in place 515whp vs. 579whp on the DJ?

Originally Posted by m33

I suggest that Gintani make their dyno's in shootout mode so that there is no question as to the corrections used. I have not seen any corrections shown on the Gintani dynodynamics charts like Evolve and others have displayed. The truth is without this info it is all a big guess as to what corrections are being used and what the numbers should be on this type of dyno. Maybe when the owner of this car gets back to San Diego he can get the car dyno tested on his own and report back.

I wish all tuners would dyno every car on the DJ, I'm not a fan of the DD's, MAHA, Mustang or DP, for the same reason you and others are not, tough to compare, but what can you do, but like you I'm not a big fan in comparing or debating dyno #'s, lol, so much for that belief now? I agree he should go and dyno on a DJ and see what it makes, I'm just as curious as you.

Lastly, I hear you, there's no beef here, but I don't want to go back and forth on this anymore, if you disagree with me let's leave it at that, regardless good questions, points etc., good luck with the new dyno's and Vbox runs.

[991brothers]

Can't wait to see this car in action since he's local!