|
|
03-22-2007, 07:46 AM | #1 |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
Technical Discussion of BMW M3 V8 Engine
There is another thread with pretty pictures, let's discuss this engine technically (as much as a messageboard can)....
Torque: 295 foot pounds peak. This is 77% of the BMW S85 V10. This means the V8 geometry cannot generate as much torque as the V10 per cylinder (this is expected....usually the higher number of cylinders, the more torque per cylinder due to geometry efficiencies) Horsepower: Since horsepower is a derived or calculated number based on torque, for BMW to get above 400 hp, they needed to increase the redline to 8300 RPM. The spec appears to call out 420 PS or 414 HP Engine Weight: The weight is 202 kg or 445 pounds. This is 84% of the weight of the S85 V10 engine. This is expected, you cannot expect a perfect 80% of the S85 weight by lopping off 2 cylinders. But also on a relative basis, this is 84 pounds less than the BMW V10, 33 pounds more than the N54 (BMW 335i) and 32 pounds less than the E46 M3 S54 engine.... How it falls together: It is clear that BMW is going after weight aggressively and specifically, they are going after power to weight. Since the engine only pumps out 295 foot pounds of torque, this will allow BMW to use lighter drivetrain parts. There was heated debate when the BMW V10 engine specs were released...people didn't think 383 foot pounds of torque was enough. As we have seen the M5 / M6 performance is awesome. But horsepower is horsepower BUT the 2 critical things for the BMW M3 to really succeed is: Weight: If BMW can keep this car under 3600 pounds, it is going to rock the RS4 Transmission: This engine is screaming for a close ratio 7 speed gearbox. If BMW launches the M3 with a manual 6 speed, it is going to hurt the perception of the new car. I would wait for a better transmission Other thoughts???
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
03-22-2007, 07:57 AM | #2 |
I'm takin' the day off.
109
Rep 339
Posts |
"Transmission: This engine is screaming for a close ratio 7 speed gearbox. If BMW launches the M3 with a manual 6 speed, it is going to hurt the perception of the new car. I would wait for a better transmission"
+1 More M POWER please! All this weight saving comes to zero when you have your fat friends and a full tank of gas in the car! |
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:05 AM | #3 |
Lieutenant Colonel
20
Rep 1,504
Posts |
The manual tranny is more efficient, no matter how you want to look at it. More power will make it to the rear tires. As long as it isn't hamstrung like the M5 6-speed, than I don't think anyone who wants a true manual will be disappointed. I concede that the 'other tranny' will likely be faster around a road course. I'm in this for other reasons.
Good thread, btw. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:21 AM | #4 |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
Torque Curve
Looks like the M3 V8 has a flatter torque curve than the M5 V10. This means the acceleration won't be as surgy as it is in the M5 / M6.....
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:23 AM | #5 | |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
Quote:
If M3 came out with a manual 7 speed, this would be good.....but alot of rowing.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:26 AM | #6 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
20
Rep 1,504
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:38 AM | #7 | |
Lieutenant General
609
Rep 10,407
Posts |
Efficiency
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 09:51 AM | #8 |
Moderator
7506
Rep 19,370
Posts |
Great thread T-Bone.
Edit: I misread your post. So the V8 comes in between the N54 and S54. I.e N54 < M V8 < S54. So right there, dropping the V8 straight into a 335i body would give you a 3600lb car. Of course, that's not at all what they are going to do. But - just how much below that they can come in remains to be seen. I don't think we are looking at a sub-3500lb car. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 11:08 AM | #10 |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
8400, my German isn't so good in the mornings....peak power is at 8300.....
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 01:59 PM | #11 |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
Torque Curve
After looking at the torque curve a bit more, damn that thing is flat..... BMW has achieved something that is nearly impossible.... an atmospheric engine with a torque curve like a turbo motor....
It is getting more impressive every minute....
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 07:23 PM | #13 | |
Moderator
7506
Rep 19,370
Posts |
Quote:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...gine-in-detail If you can dodge all the marketing-ese. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:02 PM | #14 | |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
Quote:
I believe you are asking about the 8 individual butterflies throttle bodies.....If you are.... BMW M engines (except the E36 USA spec M3) uses individual throttle bodies for each cylinder. With this engine, BMW is stating that to have the absolute best throttle response, it is critical the distance between the butterfly and intake is minimal. This means you cannot have a mass air flow sensor to meter the air, instead it uses the butterfly position, throttle position, idle adjust etc to infer the air volume etc.... Just a fancy way to preserve responsiveness of the M engines.... Was this what you were asking?
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:22 PM | #15 |
Private First Class
14
Rep 179
Posts |
Although BMW has given a lot of effort in weight reduction, i'm still a little disappointed about the torque...the whole thrill of taking off from a standstill is the feeling of being thrown back into your seat and feeling the rush and adrenaline; if the 335i offers 300 lb-ft of torque, i expect more from the M3; however, having said that, I believe in the end the overall package will surely favor the new M3 (taking into consideration the suspension, chassis and handling)
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 08:30 PM | #16 | |
Brigadier General
529
Rep 4,021
Posts
Drives: 2008 335xi Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The land where we kill baby seals
|
Quote:
Weight = bad It is all about the torque curve and not the absolute number. This engine delivers the flatest torque curve I have ever seen for an atmospheric engine. You will be push back into your seat and it will keep you there.
__________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who cannot build engines"......Enzo Ferrari
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 09:18 PM | #18 | |
Lieutenant
388
Rep 487
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-22-2007, 09:29 PM | #19 | |
Brigadier General
125
Rep 3,071
Posts
Drives: E92M3-E46M3-E46Wagon-E89Z4-E36
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Greater St Louis Metro area
|
Quote:
Swamp is correct, the SMG is just as efficient in transferring power to the rear wheels as a manual, since it is a computer controlled manual transmission. Therefore, no reduction in performance. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2007, 03:27 AM | #20 | |
Major General
143
Rep 6,333
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2017 BMW M4 DCT Lease Transfer: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post23736398
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2007, 03:52 AM | #21 |
Colonel
790
Rep 2,234
Posts |
How will they be able to arrange the pattern for the gear box? Surely the traditional 'H' pattern is limited to six forward gears and reverse?
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2007, 04:14 AM | #22 |
Moderator
7506
Rep 19,370
Posts |
Actually, the traditional H pattern was limited to just four gears (three plus reverse). That's why it was called the H pattern. As time went on, they added more. Don't see why you couldn't do seven or eight or however many you want.
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|