A problem with a lease and ED on an M3

[IrishCoffee]

I had an odd experience with BMWFS when I did my ED lease.

I set up my deal, did all the paperwork, booked the trip, etc. Just before I was going leave for the trip I got a letter in the mail from BMWFS. I opened it and was horrified to see that my credit application was denied. I was totally confused and freaking out because my trip was booked and paid for. I called the number on the paperwork and the guy informed me that these decisions are final and that the only action I could take is to request by mail why I was denied. I couldn't believe it.

I then called the dealer who assured me everything was fine and that they had all the approvals necessary. It turns out the reason I got that letter is because when they tried to "re-lock" the lease rates (which had gotten better) they had to submit a new application. BMWFS was actually denying me a second car approval.

I thought it was really strange that when I called and gave my name and social number there was no record in their system that explained this to the guy on the other end. I explained my situation and he basically just said "sorry, I don't know what to tell you".

Is it possible that you're in the same boat here? I am confused how you could possibly have done all the paperwork and signed a contract only to have it pulled when you come back.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by ramuman

I asked that exact question and the FM said that since it hasn't been titled in the US, they could. The FM offered to put me in touch with the new sales manager who was of course not available which is when I left the voicemail with the GM.



Thanks, on the former, I'll keep it under wraps for now, but may ask privately later in the process.

On the later, one would think. God forbid I take two months time off from working 70 hour weeks in a lab to...working 80-100 hour weeks at a desk.

What set me off today was the FM emphasizing I'm unemployed. It was the tone of how it was said to me several times and then carried over into how I can have the chance to get the car if no one else has picked it up before BMWFS deems me worthy, the later something the FM was unwilling to help on at present.

In my mind the problem exists somewhere with either the FM or BMWFS, neither of whom I can engage. I'm trying to have a sit-down with the GM and explain this from start to finish.

Your job is your credit! Jk sounds like something you'd hear from your corner used car lot.


BMW is all about makin money now,all the passion, sheer driving pleasure bs they talk about is jst marketing. Because if they understood how passionate people get about cars, they wouldnt do that to BMW fan who was upfront with his situation from the very beginning.

That's a pretty awful thing to do to a car enthusiast,give him the impression He's getting the car,have him travel to Europe for the European delivery then tell him NO...

[Erie Von Otto]

W.T.F... crazy story. Good luck op, hope it works out for you.

[ramuman]

Spoke with the GM just now and he seemed very sympathetic about wanting to help out. I'll just have to wait until Monday to see what happens.

The problem in this process is that BMWFS is seemingly not linked well to anyone and certainly not the customer; it operates as a black box.

I had a professor in college who would call people doing crap work "people of moderate intelligence" as a way to soften the blow. It very well could be that there is someone of moderate intelligence working in BMWFS thinking I'm applying for 5 cars (you know, for my posse) or that I actually am a credit risk and somehow sort of slipped through the cracks. You can probably guess which side of those logical extremes my take about this lies .

Thanks for all your help and I can only hope for the best. The CA is great, but it seems of everyone I spoke with, the GM is the only one in a position to directly help with BMWFS. The FM might have been, but never seemed remotely willing.

I might go have a beer and start off the weekend.

[TTO898]

Originally Posted by US///M3

Your job is your credit!

LOL! Eastern Motors!!

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by ramuman

Spoke with the GM just now and he seemed very sympathetic about wanting to help out. I'll just have to wait until Monday to see what happens.

The problem in this process is that BMWFS is seemingly not linked well to anyone and certainly not the customer; it operates as a black box.

I had a professor in college who would call people doing crap work "people of moderate intelligence" as a way to soften the blow. It very well could be that there is someone of moderate intelligence working in BMWFS thinking I'm applying for 5 cars (you know, for my posse) or that I actually am a credit risk and somehow sort of slipped through the cracks. You can probably guess which side of those logical extremes my take about this lies .

Thanks for all your help and I can only hope for the best. The CA is great, but it seems of everyone I spoke with, the GM is the only one in a position to directly help with BMWFS. The FM might have been, but never seemed remotely willing.

I might go have a beer and start off the weekend.

Talking about people of moderate intelligence, i didnt get my first brand new BMW untill at least a couple of years into a good payin job, it wasnt an M car and after i purchased my first home.
At the very beginning of my career buying a $70 k car was out of question and those were the Clinton years (good economy).

I guess people nowadays over leverage even their future and want instant gratification.
i mean anything can happen, My 60 yo Mother always says if you have an emergency fund,most likely you wont have an emergency.

I would recommend The OP to listen to Dave Ramsey.

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by US///M3

Talking about people of moderate intelligence, i didnt get my first brand new BMW untill at least a couple of years into a good payin job, it wasnt an M car and after i purchased my first home.
At the very beginning of my career buying a $70 k car was out of question and those were the Clinton years (good economy).

I guess people nowadays over leverage even their future and want instant gratification.
i mean anything can happen, My 60 yo Mother always says if you have an emergency fund,most likely you wont have an emergency.

I would recommend The OP to listen to Dave Ramsey.

That's fairly insulting and condescending for you to say. I thought I had kept things clear and modest in the OP and the follow-up posts.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by ramuman

That's fairly insulting and condescending for you to say. I thought I had kept things clear and modest in the OP and the follow-up posts.

Dont get me wrong, your local BMW dealer is at fault here for giving you the impression that you were approved for the loan,even having you go through with the ED.
On the other hand i didnt know that being unemployed you could qualify for a $70k car loan based on the promise of a new job's projected future income and without having a qualified co-signer in the original application.

Also you mentioned your credit, i have a great credit score as well. Does it mean i can finance a Citation Jet?
Your past work history,your assets etc. also come into play.

You're very eloquent though, i'd give you that.

[dth656]

Originally Posted by ramuman

Spoke with the GM just now and he seemed very sympathetic about wanting to help out. I'll just have to wait until Monday to see what happens.

The problem in this process is that BMWFS is seemingly not linked well to anyone and certainly not the customer; it operates as a black box.

I had a professor in college who would call people doing crap work "people of moderate intelligence" as a way to soften the blow. It very well could be that there is someone of moderate intelligence working in BMWFS thinking I'm applying for 5 cars (you know, for my posse) or that I actually am a credit risk and somehow sort of slipped through the cracks. You can probably guess which side of those logical extremes my take about this lies .

Thanks for all your help and I can only hope for the best. The CA is great, but it seems of everyone I spoke with, the GM is the only one in a position to directly help with BMWFS. The FM might have been, but never seemed remotely willing.

I might go have a beer and start off the weekend.

OP,

hang in there--i was in a somewhat similar situation when i purchased my first BMW back in 2006 (although i was going into mgmt consulting post grad school, not banking or trading).

a few things worked in my favor:

-i was purchasing a car, and it was on the lot w/ a manual transmission, so the dealer was very interested in moving it
-my downpayment was half the cost of the car (my plan was to pay it off completely after my first year at work)
-i had a bit more credit history (i.e. paying off undergrad loans, and one previous car loan)

however, it was very painful to deal w/ the dealer finance people once we agreed to the terms. although you said "moderate intelligence", i'd use a phrase like "marginal" or "proletarian". they are often unused to seeing someone young in a position to purchase an expensive car.

i hope it works out for you, and i can definitely relate to your experience. until then, make the most of the downtime before work starts!

[ramuman]

An update of sorts (though nothing has really changed):

First, I'm going to clear the air: It's BMW of South Atlanta.

Second, the car is now here in Georgia on a truck. The Hyundai ship docked yesterday. The CA confirmed this as well.

Third, I'm asked for proof of first first month's payment so that the GM/SM/FM can talk to "the higher ups" at BMWFS. I agree and give them the check that I'm told won't be cashed (it had a removable stop payment on it) last Wed.

Today I receive a call saying they need to cash it to show they have the funds from me. I reluctantly agree but want the GM to send me something saying they will refund the payment if I don't receive the car.

Finally, here is the car when I parked it outside the Welt and was beyond elated - I would've rather never driven it at all than have gone through this:



I didn't want to name the dealer, but it's been beyond absurd that they could tell three people that it's fine to go to Europe and then let me come back to this incoherent mess with absolutely no progress made since. In fact, I was the one who contacted them about the letter I received. I think I've given them plenty of time for a definitive answer. I hope they make it right, but I'm on the last shard of faith. I also want to think of next steps with them regarding the trip if they can't deliver the car.

[MKE_M3]

That is a nice looking car, basically the E92 version of my E90. Having said that, if I were you, I'd be pissed about the time of yours they've wasted, and all the money you spent on ED that wasn't just about a great vacation (if any?) due the dealership misleading you about the status of your financing.

I don't think you can be upset about being denied financing without a job. I'm surprised your spider senses weren't tingling you "It can't be right that I'm getting approved for a loan without a job/income stream, didn't we just have a huge recession triggered in large part by lax lending standards?!?!?"

Good luck and get to work

[ramuman]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

That is a nice looking car, basically the E92 version of my E90. Having said that, if I were you, I'd be pissed about the time of yours they've wasted, and all the money you spent on ED that wasn't just about a great vacation (if any?) due the dealership misleading you about the status of your financing.

I don't think you can be upset about being denied financing without a job. I'm surprised your spider senses weren't tingling you "It can't be right that I'm getting approved for a loan without a job/income stream, didn't we just have a huge recession triggered in large part by lax lending standards?!?!?"

Good luck and get to work

I'm pissed about a lot of things actually (none directed at you, just venting):

- Taking the costly trip and being assured on the day of the trip everything was fine by my CA, in person.

- BMW advertising a college graduate program that specifically targets soon to be graduates with a job offer in hand.

- Being told I was approved - multiple times with the massive cap cost reduction I agreed to. I relented because I wanted a new M3 and there was no getting around this.

- Having gone through a dragged out process where I offered every conceivable piece of evidence that was asked to see if I were worthy of having this car.

I've gotten better over the years about letting things slide. But no sensible dealer lets someone go through with a trip for three people to another continent predicated on driving a car they should have within a few weeks of coming home when it isn't set hook line and sinker. I can't let that go.

I get where people are coming from regarding the job. I was talking with a friend that works in finance and he said that I could've been making 50k a year, gotten approved, lost the job the next day and still have been fine. However, everything about my job including the start date is set in stone. There is zero ambiguity.

Bear in mind that I had enough saved up to cover the TCO of the car over the full term from lease to insurance to gas (a lesson my parents taught me). I'm not getting this car at the limits of what I can afford. BMW specifically advertises to college graduates (granted, grad school makes me older and a bit more beat up than the typical undergrad).

I don't want a lesson in saving money from Ramsey or Orman - I'm not an idiot and that wasn't the point of me starting this thread. I just want a straight yes or no from my dealer and I think I'm owed that. I'm moving, trying to license some things I came up with in grad school, and just trying to enjoy the rest of my summer...of which I thought the car would be a part.

[Mr. ///M3 RD]

Hello ramuman,

Sorry to see that you are still struggling with this. Hope it get's resolved real soon. Meanwhile do try to enjoy your summer.

[The HACK]

I have a couple of questions and a suggestion.

1) Is there a non-refundable deposit involved here?

2) Have you already paid the cap reduction cost?

3) If you haven't done neither, why are you still working with THIS dealer?

IF I recall, which I don't, when I did European Delivery on my wife's E92 328i, all I had paid was a $500 deposit. I vaguely recall that the first month payment needed to be paid upon my return, since technically, the day I signed the paperwork at The Welt, I've taken possession of the vehicle. But BMW waived the first 2 months of payment so I don't think we started paying for the lease until after we picked up the car.

But either way, I thought the whole process of signing for the car and picking it up at The Welt is similar to when you sign the paperworks at ANY dealership and drive a car off the lot. The second you leave The Welt with the car, it is YOUR responsibility. There's no way to leave The Welt without a confirmed lease or purchase contract, and there's no way they'd release the car to you in Europe unless they have said lease/purchase contract in hand.

I don't really understand what the problem is here, if BMW FS denied your lease application, you wouldn't have been able to pick up the car in Munich. I know my ED trip starts with a signed lease contract stating the lease started in November on the day I pick up the car. At The Welt. In Munich. The fact that you picked up the car, dropped it off, came back and then BMW FS denied your application?

Something doesn't add up.

[michaelpnett]

I get a kick out of the suggestions to "get a lawyer" etc.
Anyone with experience with attorneys understands that a lawsuit will cost the OP much more money than what he already lost. The dealership has "deep pockets" and could drag a lawsuit on for much longer than a newly employed PhD can afford.

I wish you luck, but it sounds like you are in a tough spot

[ramuman]

The HACK:

I only had a signed PO (and associated docs like the power of attorney, one month payment waiver, etc.) when I left. I haven't signed or had the chance to sign the lease. There apparently is a way to leave the Welt without financing or a lease in place, because that's what they let me do.

1) No-deposit
2) They have the check for the first payment/cap reduction but haven't cashed it just yet (see above) - it will either be returned or will go towards the first payment.
3) They'll have the car here in a few days. What are my other options?

michaelpnett:

I agree...lawyering up doesn't make sense.

[Stronghammer]

Sorry to hear of your troubles. If you used BMW of South Atlanta I am pretty sure I know your CA and I used him also. He has an excellent reputation and the process was a breeze for me. Having said that this is America and if BMW does not want your business go next door to the Audi dealership. Drive Audi's for the rest of your life and turn your kids into little Audi fans. When I was a young surgical resident I tried to get automotive insurance at state farm (clean driving record) they said no. No reason just no. So I went across the street to Allstate whom gladly insured me. Well 20 years later I have used them for numerous houses, cars and umbrella policy's. I cant imagine how much money they have made of me. So F@ck state farm and God bless an America in which with have the power to choose.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Technic

The state attorney fixed this in no time, it was all over the news here in South Florida back then. Dealere were getting customer's trade in sold before the "non-approval" so when they came back to return the new car they found out that there was no car to go back to. So they were forced to accept the new terms.

It was really a Mafia-style scam...

That's not what happened here,the op didn't get approved period,no change of terms no trade in involved.
It's hard to get approved for a $70k car loan if you don't have a job and fresh out of college.

Sometimes a dealer will let you take the car home and have you sign the contract (bill of sale) pending approval,it's legall.

I've been dealing with bmw for over 10 years, they're a reputable company and have treated me well.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by US///M3

That's not what happened here,the op didn't get approved period,no change of terms no trade in involved.
It's hard to get approved for a $70k car loan if you don't have a job and fresh out of college.

Sometimes a dealer will let you take the car home and have you sign the contract (bill of sale) pending approval,it's legall.

I've been dealing with bmw for over 10 years, they're a reputable company and have treated me well.

I was not talking about the OP situation.

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by ramuman

I'm pissed about a lot of things actually (none directed at you, just venting):

- Taking the costly trip and being assured on the day of the trip everything was fine by my CA, in person.

- BMW advertising a college graduate program that specifically targets soon to be graduates with a job offer in hand.

- Being told I was approved - multiple times with the massive cap cost reduction I agreed to. I relented because I wanted a new M3 and there was no getting around this.

- Having gone through a dragged out process where I offered every conceivable piece of evidence that was asked to see if I were worthy of having this car.

I've gotten better over the years about letting things slide. But no sensible dealer lets someone go through with a trip for three people to another continent predicated on driving a car they should have within a few weeks of coming home when it isn't set hook line and sinker. I can't let that go.

I get where people are coming from regarding the job. I was talking with a friend that works in finance and he said that I could've been making 50k a year, gotten approved, lost the job the next day and still have been fine. However, everything about my job including the start date is set in stone. There is zero ambiguity.

Bear in mind that I had enough saved up to cover the TCO of the car over the full term from lease to insurance to gas (a lesson my parents taught me). I'm not getting this car at the limits of what I can afford. BMW specifically advertises to college graduates (granted, grad school makes me older and a bit more beat up than the typical undergrad).

I don't want a lesson in saving money from Ramsey or Orman - I'm not an idiot and that wasn't the point of me starting this thread. I just want a straight yes or no from my dealer and I think I'm owed that. I'm moving, trying to license some things I came up with in grad school, and just trying to enjoy the rest of my summer...of which I thought the car would be a part.

Despite the flags with the original application (which I mentioned earlier), with all the false assurances you received, you have more than enough reason to be pissed. Sorry to hear they are still putting you through it. I don't understand this whole (new) check thing BTW. It seems so unduly complicated...

[ramuman]

I just wanted to let everyone know that everything turned out great and I picked up the car on Sat.

A quick summary of my thoughts:

The owner of the dealership had to call the top of the food chain at BMWFS, but everything was finalized according to our original terms but as basically a new lease starting at US delivery, not at ED.

My primary mistake was letting multiple dealers submit my paperwork to BMWFS. I should've had a more focussed approach, but I didn't think a financial application alone would come back to bite me. In retrospect, I would've just asked two dealers for their best quote and gone with one from there. I convoluted the process of getting a quote and getting approval through BMWFS.

On the other side, there should've been checkpoints and clarity in communication that should have prevented it from coming to this. It's a bit absurd to go as far as a trip to Munich and then find out that nothing was sorted on the financial side.

I will say that Adrian, my CA, and Steve, the GM, ultimately came through and were absolute class acts. I hope I can work with them on a F8x M in a couple of years and would recommend them to anyone. It'll no doubt be a simpler process next time. I previously avoided mentioning them by name because I didn't want opinions formed based on an unfortunate situation that hadn't yet run its course.

The process involved a bit much from everyone for a simple ED, but I've had a goofy grin every time I've started the car and I think they earned a long time customer. The whole experience was my graduation gift to myself and it has ultimately been more than worth it.

What I didn't understand in this thread was the idea that someone coming out of grad school should inherently be unable to get this car, but I don't want to keep dwelling on that. Maybe I'm a naive simpleton that just couldn't find any reasons left to keep waiting - and I'm glad I didn't.

My only regrets: BMW Apps was a waste and I should've given the 6MT more consideration - if only to be more engaged, but the DCT is (generally) quite awesome.

I did somehow manage to get a screw in the right rear less than 200 miles after pickup (~650 total miles). It's centered in the outermost tread pattern "patch" so I hope it can be plugged and patched - I'd really hate to buy a new P-Zero this early on. I'm off to Discount Tire in the morning.

[JulieDriving]

OP, great to hear that you got the car!

Originally Posted by ramuman

What I didn't understand in this thread was the idea that someone coming out of grad school should inherently be unable to get this car, but I don't want to keep dwelling on that. Maybe I'm a naive simpleton that just couldn't find any reasons left to keep waiting - and I'm glad I didn't.

If you would have been like some other kids, who got a brand new M3 because:
- they turned 16
- they managed to get a B- average
- their parents wanted them to drive a 'safe' car

...you would have gotten an even harder time.


EDIT: But I will mention this. Times have changed. Even in the (less than 10) years I've been out of post-grad. More and more, the younger grads feel like they 'should' get the finer things in life. Now. As soon as they have the cash flow. And much sooner than it took their older colleagues many years to get.