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      07-23-2009, 02:49 PM   #1
Hyperspaced
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Trustworthy 0-60 on M3

Anyone know what the real numbers are for stock new M3s? BMW seems to have it significantly slower than Car and Driver and Motortrend. I don't know why they would publish numbers signficantly worse than these magazines.

Thanks
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      07-23-2009, 02:51 PM   #2
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About 4.6, DCT will be faster then 6MT
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      07-23-2009, 02:58 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperspaced View Post
BMW seems to have it significantly slower than Car and Driver and Motortrend. I don't know why they would publish numbers signficantly worse than these magazines.
Well first off, the mags tests with a one foot roll out, which makes for a quicker time (and which some people consider cheating). Secondly, its marketing. They trade off between a number that is too low to look favorable against the competition and too high for any typical M3 customer to reasonably achieve.

The only real acceleration time for you is the one you can repeatedly achieve by driving the car in the most aggresive way that you feel comfortable doing on a reasonably regular basis (or rare basis, if you are stoplight bench racing here).
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      07-23-2009, 03:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2381 View Post
About 4.6, DCT will be faster then 6MT
Yeah, but the 6MT provides more control over the car, and the driver is more connected to the drive. (ALRIGHT! ANOTHER DCT vs. 6MT thread starting RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!!! hahahahehe jk jk)

For a stock M3 with a 6 speed manual, an unbiased 0-60 should be around 4.7-4.8 sec.
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      07-23-2009, 03:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Well first off, the mags tests with a one foot roll out, which makes for a quicker time (and which some people consider cheating).
That's because it is cheating.

The measure is 0-60mph not "a little bit-60mph"
Call me a stickler but....
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      07-23-2009, 03:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
That's because it is cheating.

The measure is 0-60mph not "a little bit-60mph"
Call me a stickler but....
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree in general, but I was trying to remain neutral on the issue in the context of this thread.
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      07-23-2009, 03:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nawaaz View Post
Yeah, but the 6MT provides more control over the car, and the driver is more connected to the drive. (ALRIGHT! ANOTHER DCT vs. 6MT thread starting RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW!!! hahahahehe jk jk)

For a stock M3 with a 6 speed manual, an unbiased 0-60 should be around 4.7-4.8 sec.
Mine's a manual, ive had 5 seconds with 3 people in the car, so i dont think 4.7 is too much out of the question.
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      07-23-2009, 03:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New_m3 View Post
Mine's a manual, ive had 5 seconds with 3 people in the car, so i dont think 4.7 is too much out of the question.
I agree. 4.7 is a good # for the 6 speed.
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      07-23-2009, 03:42 PM   #9
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4 seconds flat for DCT..... ok so I have no idea....
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      07-23-2009, 03:46 PM   #10
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about 5 for the average driver
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      07-23-2009, 03:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2381 View Post
About 4.6, DCT will be faster then 6MT
I disagree
it takes a DCT driver only 10 secs to engage launch control
by the time he hits 60, the 6mt will be back to zero already

jk
dct beats the 6mt
I think car and driver or someone did like 4.1? or something along those lines
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      07-23-2009, 03:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuVan View Post
I think car and driver or someone did like 4.1? or something along those lines
Only with the cheating method.
I don't think there's a hope in hell of cracking 4.5sec without cheating.
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      07-23-2009, 03:51 PM   #13
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The M3 E93 6MT would be touching 5? for car and driver and motortrend it would be around 4.7-4.8.
The DCT would be even quicker (take another 0.2 off the times posted)

I know the car and driver times posted for the DCT M3 E92 was 4.1s!

Now thats unachievable by an average driver IMO.
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      07-23-2009, 05:29 PM   #14
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I would say - it depends on why you want to know the 0-60 times.

If it's so you can compare 0-60 M3 vs another car to know which is faster - then it doesn't really matter if it's 1 ft rollout, vs complete stop, vs 2 ft rollout standing on your head. As long as all cars you're comparing it to are measured the same way, preferably on the same track, with the same conditions (or adjusted for variable conditions). For that, I would use a 3rd party (like car and driver) over the manufacturer - since every manufacturer will use a different track/method/etc but a magazine will do their best to insure that all tests are done in a consistent manner. But I wouldn't compare car and driver's numbers vs another magazine.

If it's so you can know what you should realistically expect at the track, no better way than to do it yourself as it will vary depending on altitude, temperature at the track, gas, etc.

In short - I've seen numbers anywhere from low 4's to 5.0, and all of them are "right" depending on the comparison.

I happen to agree with those who say a 0-60 time should truly be from 0 to 60, but I also understand why that number is "less valuable" for comparison reasons if for no other reason than the variability is higher and it's harder to measure.
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      07-23-2009, 05:36 PM   #15
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If the 4.1sec time for a DCT was achieved using a roll out and not easily replicated by the average driver, I am assuming Launch Control was not used in achieving the best 0-60 times?
Just curious.
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      07-23-2009, 07:54 PM   #16
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So DCT FTMFW again? This tranny and it's 0-60 times are just killing the game right right now.
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      07-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND View Post
So DCT FTMFW again? This tranny and it's 0-60 times are just killing the game right right now.
Yes.
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      07-23-2009, 08:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by URBAN LEGEND View Post
So DCT FTMFW again? This tranny and it's 0-60 times are just killing the game right right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riyatch View Post
Yes.
DCT guys will choose DCT for its advantages, and 6 speed manual guys will choose the manual for its advantages.
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      07-23-2009, 08:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperspaced View Post
Anyone know what the real numbers are for stock new M3s? BMW seems to have it significantly slower than Car and Driver and Motortrend. I don't know why they would publish numbers signficantly worse than these magazines.

Thanks

To help awnser your question and not waste your time let me make a couple of points.

1) Other members are correct magazines use a foot roll out method for 0-60 times which is cheating because it's a 0-60 time not a .5-60 etc.

2) BMW tends to always under estimate the achievable times and speeds of their vehicles. Since the e30 M3 and maybe even before they have always under estimated.

To all you thread jackers out there the OP was asking about comparing BMW 0-60 to R&T or Motortrend 0-60 times.
"Oh good for you and how was it"

Ash
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      07-23-2009, 09:14 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drft92 View Post
To help awnser your question and not waste your time let me make a couple of points.

1) Other members are correct magazines use a foot roll out method for 0-60 times which is cheating because it's a 0-60 time not a .5-60 etc.

2) BMW tends to always under estimate the achievable times and speeds of their vehicles. Since the e30 M3 and maybe even before they have always under estimated.

To all you thread jackers out there the OP was asking about comparing BMW 0-60 to R&T or Motortrend 0-60 times.
"Oh good for you and how was it"

Ash
Thanks for saving the thread. You're my HERO.
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      07-23-2009, 09:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 vert View Post
The M3 E93 6MT would be touching 5? for car and driver and motortrend it would be around 4.7-4.8.
The DCT would be even quicker (take another 0.2 off the times posted)

I know the car and driver times posted for the DCT M3 E92 was 4.1s!

Now thats unachievable by an average driver IMO.
Actually, 4.1 secs was with a 6 speed manual sedan in its comparison with IS-F. It is on their site. The DCT ran 4.3 secs in a separate test. Car and Driver seems to prefer the 6 speed over the M-DCT.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...49021fcf2c.pdf

M-DCT:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

This is the explanation of the "one foot roll out" as to why track testers rely on a one foot roll out:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=130988

"We believe the use of rollout for quarter-mile timed runs is appropriate, as this test is designed to represent an optimum drag strip run that a car owner can replicate at a drag strip. In the spirit of consistency, we also follow NHRA practice when calculating quarter-mile trap speed at the end of the run. So we publish the average speed over the final 66 feet of the quarter-mile run, even though our VBOX can tell us the instantaneous speed at the end of the 1,320-foot course, which is usually faster.

On the other hand, the use of rollout with 0-60 times is inappropriate in our view. For one, 0-60-mph acceleration is not a drag-racing convention. More important, it's called ZERO to 60 mph, not 3 or 4 mph to 60 mph, which is what you get when you apply rollout. While it is tempting to use rollout in order to make 0-60 acceleration look more impressive by 0.3 second, thereby hyping both the car's performance and the apparent skill of the test driver, we think it's cheating"
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      07-23-2009, 09:48 PM   #22
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I did some runs a while back on my old G-Tech meter. I always found it to be accurate, and it seemed to be with the M3. I never got what I would consider a perfect run, but I think I did a 4.7x. I think there was a little more to be had with some more practice. Now that I have my AA tune and UUC shifter, I'll have to try it again.
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