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10-18-2012, 11:27 PM | #1 |
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Can the M3 slip with DSC set to "ON"?
Hello Folks,
Just curious - coming home today from work, I was talking a few turns at a reasonably high speed and was quite thrilled and nervous at the same time. I'm always having DSC to "ON" - can the wheels slip in this situation? Or can I push the car without any worries of slippage and trust DSC to apply brakes and reduce power in all scenarios? I know that the manual says "Even with DSC switched ON, you can't repeal the laws of physics" or something like that Thanks! -- cacofonix! EDIT: Just want to clarify that this question does not mean "what if lose control of the car, or what if I drive like a crazy person" - just want to know that if I am taking a controlled turn at a high speed, will the tires slip when DSC is ON. Last edited by cacofonix; 10-19-2012 at 12:02 AM.. |
10-18-2012, 11:51 PM | #2 |
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Sorry, from the way you describe things, it sounds like you are an inexperienced driver, regardless to the number of years you have had your licence. Please head to a track or undergo some driver training first before something nasty happens. Like any other safety system, DSC has its limits and can be overcome.
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10-19-2012, 12:01 AM | #3 |
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Here we go.
Everytime there is a DSC thread..the knee-jerk responses.."get driver training, go to the track, you're inexperienced".. blah blah. OP the DSC intrudes and cuts power rather abruptly as soon as certain steering and suspension angles/yaw rates and other thresholds are exceeded...the MDM is much less intrusive and the Euro MDM is even less. All of these modes however will eventually intervene before you break loose completely. You still have to have to manage the car as the driver..these modes only alert and cut power. Hope this helps |
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10-19-2012, 12:04 AM | #4 | |
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Last edited by mlhj83; 10-19-2012 at 12:10 AM.. |
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10-19-2012, 12:09 AM | #5 | |
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10-19-2012, 12:13 AM | #6 |
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Even with DSC fully on, it is still possible to put the car in a spin. However, that is unlikely to happen because intervention will save you UNLESS, you are breaking the laws of physics aka. doing something ridiculously stupid.
Have fun with your car and stay out of trouble!
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10-19-2012, 12:15 AM | #7 |
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I was able to chirp the tires with dsc ON
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10-19-2012, 12:17 AM | #8 | |
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10-19-2012, 12:18 AM | #9 | |
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10-19-2012, 12:55 AM | #11 |
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Correct. Here is a video of mine on a wet track day for anyone who is interested in getting an idea of how much slip MDM allows in the wet. Fast forward to 4.50 onwards, which is when the track gets wet and rains heavily for the rest of the video.
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10-19-2012, 07:48 AM | #12 |
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As others have mentioned OP, it sounds like you're asking whether you can count on DSC to let you be a leadfoot hooligan without fear that something bad will happen. You can't; tires can slip and the car can slide even with DSC on, especially in the rain -- and in any case you've got completely the wrong perspective on DSC anyway. DSC is designed primarily to help the car recover in an unexpected circumstance, such as slipping in wet weather because it was WET, not because it was wet AND you decided you could disregard that fact and drive as you please anyway just because DSC was on.
You'll get much more enjoyment out of the car and driving in general (not to mention be safer) if you get some driver training -- plus the driver training experience itself is a lot of fun. I use Euro MDM even on the track as sort of a teaching tool and last resort safety net. Euro MDM is lenient enough that it seems to get in the way only when I've messed up, so I like knowing that it's there and will reel me back if my current technique through a given area is incorrect or too aggressive -- but if I feel it intervene I make a mental note to adjust my technique there. I don't go out thinking that MDM being on absolves me of any responsibility to drive somewhat well or even that it's guaranteed to save me if I really screw the pooch somewhere.
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10-19-2012, 08:21 AM | #13 |
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DSC only works if the car has >91 octane gas in it
Seriously, DSC is only a driver aid, not some magic technology that will always keep you safe. It will not save you from boneheaded driving, and in normal driving on public streets, it should only activate in the case of an unexpected emergency (e.g., black ice during the winter, not that you get that in the Bay Area). If you drive like a maniac around Palo Alto, DSC on or off, you're likely to mow down a dozen kids of Internet millionaires, so be safe out there. [for anyone confused, see: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759843] Last edited by Foodle; 10-19-2012 at 08:33 AM.. |
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10-19-2012, 10:08 AM | #14 |
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10-19-2012, 11:06 AM | #16 | |
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The questions you're asking genuinely make me fear for your life and for the lives of the people around you. Please be safe. You have a nice new toy, but a foolish mistake in a 414hp 3700lbs car can lead to a tragedy that you can never undo. |
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10-19-2012, 11:10 AM | #17 |
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Ohhh... that track looks fabulous!
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10-19-2012, 11:20 AM | #18 |
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10-19-2012, 11:26 AM | #19 |
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All the discussions / debate about OP's alleged perception on DSC and the suggestion to take performance driving are all good. People just sharing opinions mostly with caution for safety and preventing unnecessary tragedy.
One thing interesting that OP left out quite vaguely is just how fast the speed was. Anyway, it makes no difference to the general feedback he's looking for I guess. Rain season has started in my area and yeah I can totally feel the differential doing its work when I am pulling out of driveway turning on to the road even at low speed. I still have full DSC on all the time since picking my car up < 3 months ago. It's still the driver's job to modulate the basic input: throttle, clutch, brakes and steering angle.
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10-19-2012, 11:27 AM | #20 |
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I just did the M Performance 2 day school and ended up in the grass with the M5 and MDM, monster turbo torque but it was fun though! Everybody commenting that DSC can not defy the laws of physics is absolutely correct and the driver has the ultimate responsibility for their ultimate driving machine.........
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10-19-2012, 12:52 PM | #21 |
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Nice video. Was that a Noble in front of you at the beginning? I couldn't tell...
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10-19-2012, 01:08 PM | #22 |
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Yes, the DSC is going to react to the wheels slipping, not scan the road ahead and keep them from slipping. If you take a turn at too high a speed, hit a slick patch, etc. you will slip/drift before the DSC reduces power to the affected wheel to try to reduce the chance of a spin.
I saw a recent test that stated that DSC/traction control systems currently in use can reduce the chance of a spin out during radical emergency maneuvers by about 2/3rds. You might note that it is NOT 100%. |
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