2012 M3 Engine

dimabimmer · 02-20-2010, 10:03 PM

How does Porsche GT-2 Turbo 6 compares to M3 V8?

... maybe thats the direction future M is going to take? High Tech Turbo 6?

Bob MG · 02-20-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthony @ eas

I'm excited to see the new engine. I'm guessing there will be tons of power potential hidden in it.

I agree, more bang for your buck power mods on a turbo! But imagine they brought out variant of the S65 motor in twin turbo?? Yikes that would be a better competition for Merc 6
litre plus superchared V8s?

Since M3s are losing NA status, I don't feel so bad supercharging

930Man · 02-20-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimabimmer

How does Porsche GT-2 Turbo 6 compares to M3 V8?

... maybe thats the direction future M is going to take? High Tech Turbo 6?

being a former owner of a 996 GT2 as well as a 997 gt2... the E92.. V8 not even in the same ball park.. either GT2 would leave it flat sitting still any time any place any condition...

the power out of the Gt2 is insane...!

Bob MG · 02-20-2010, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimabimmer

How does Porsche GT-2 Turbo 6 compares to M3 V8?

... maybe thats the direction future M is going to take? High Tech Turbo 6?

+1 but a pure race road car like GT3 and RS is not turbo charged, is much lighter and power wise is right up there due to lightweight engine internals.

The problem with GT2 and turbo porsches is when you have one you love the brute power, but you miss the rawness of gt3 NA. And vice versa when you swap for the latter. I have been back and forth like this for over 10 years.

The M3 should come in two variants: a turbo 6 with power at the 480Hp mark,
and a light weight GTS type variant, as a high revving V8 NA. Same as GT3 and RS Market, it will be smaller than the M3 turbo demand, but still satisfy that segment of the market for purists.

930Man · 02-20-2010, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewabf

+1 but a pure race road car like GT3 and RS is not turbo charged, is much lighter and power wise is right up there due to lightweight engine internals.

The problem with GT2 and turbo porsches is when you have one you love the brute power, but you miss the rawness of gt3 NA. And vice versa when you swap for the latter. I have been back and forth like this for over 10 years.

The M3 should come in two variants: a turbo 6 with power at the 480Hp mark,
and a light weight GTS type variant, as a high revving V8 NA. Same as GT3 and RS Market, it will be smaller than the M3 turbo demand, but still satisfy that segment of the market for purists.

100% correct... the Gt2's never fulfilled the NA sound and feel of my RS or my gen1,2, Gt3!

-=Frigid|Fire=- · 02-20-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimabimmer

Isn't it true for turbo engine's torque curve to suddenly drop at high RPM, as opposed to NA HI REV M3 V8,- hp and torque increase with rpm?

Usually this is the case. Porsche says they have found a cure to this.

mkoesel · 02-22-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drvai

What's the source of this info?

Various sources on this forum and other related internet sites, combined with educatied speculation based on past patterns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by teagueAMX

Such marvelous hilarious gibberish - I love it!

BTW, did you mean "Apadtive" or Adaptive? Wasn't able to find a definition for that one.

Thanks. Yep, I noticed the misspelling a while back but am just too lazy to fix the image.

mkoesel · 02-22-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLOL

Also, the replacement for the 335i will be a turbocharged 2.0 4 cylinder.

This one I doubt. I think the 335i will stay the 335i or change to the 340i and continue to use a turbocharged 6. The naturally aspirated I6 in 328i is the one I would say will be replaced by a turbo 4 (and the name of the car will probably change too).

MrLOL · 03-01-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Nope, but BMW has learned quite a few lessons from all the tuning methods used on the 335i.

The next generation of engine management computers, will have a software operating systems that can detect any unauthorized (third-party)changes to the ECU programming. If it detects an attempt to change the values within the factory mapping tables, it will lock the ECU...and log that event into memory. (requiring you to make a trip to the dealer to unlock it. (where you will have some serious explaining to do)

The new ECU's will be able to recognize an encrypted "digital fingerprint", that will only be available on BMW factory-authorized software updates.

Thats all well and good

but when tuners are turning out cars like this.

I couldnt give a damn !

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=21582

641bhp !!! The next M5 has the potential to be an absolute monster.

zibawal · 03-01-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoesel

This one I doubt. I think the 335i will stay the 335i or change to the 340i and continue to use a turbocharged 6. The naturally aspirated I6 in 328i is the one I would say will be replaced by a turbo 4 (and the name of the car will probably change too).

328i engine is pretty wimp compared to some good twin turbo 4s 200+BHP engines out there.

MrHarris · 03-01-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

I don't think it has the system I just described, since it's still in development. (for the new M5 & M6)

From what I am told, the current ECU in the 2 turbo SAV's does have a few "traps", that will severely restrict the performance of a piggyback or standalone ECU that is plugged into the vehicle. It also logs everything, including any attempt to increase the boost pressure of the turbos...

I know the tuners at Gintani made serious power on a customers X5M with just a tune. Something like +80hp and similar TQ.

I don't think it has this new security feature.

LMB, is this security feature FOR SURE?

michaeldorian · 03-01-2010, 08:38 PM

Southlight mentioned on 1addicts that there's a possibility for an power boost for the 2012 M3 amidst the delays for the M1. This is starting to get interesting.

valbauer · 03-01-2010, 11:38 PM

They should really just make an N/A 6 with somewhere between 360-420bhp, more torque than the current M3, and make it somewhere around 3000 lbs. Much like the E46 CSL except with quicker pickup

Lemans_Blue_M · 03-02-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHarris

I know the tuners at Gintani made serious power on a customers X5M with just a tune. Something like +80hp and similar TQ.

I don't think it has this new security feature.

LMB, is this security feature FOR SURE?

Yes, this is for sure...

The power output when using a plug-in piggyback ECU (or standalone ECU) interface is limited, and any attempts to access the ECU programming directly are logged into memory by the factory ECU.

+80hp sounds like a huge increase...but it's not. (for a 4.4 liter twin-turbo charged engine)

The 'tuner' (and I use that word very loosely in this situation) just maxed out what BMW left on the table. (by removing all the safety margins that were built in at the factory) BMW engineers release VERY conservative tunes for all their engines, so there is always some room for a tuner to extract more power.

All the other BMW engine 'tuners' will get about the same power out of this engine. So it's not like they figured out anything special...

The 'trap' limits how much you can tweak the engine, and if you have to bring it into the dealership for any reason...they will be able to tell the ECU was altered. (and immediately red flag your car)

If you ever experience any engine related issues...you're screwed.

What's the worst case scenario if the 'tuner' doesn't know what he's doing?

A new 4.4 liter twin-turbocharged S63B44 engine costs $31,000. (not covered under warranty obviously)

mkoesel · 03-02-2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

Scott has said the 2012 M3 engine will be indeed be getting more power on 1addacits,because the M1 is also going to be getting more power and lighter,now I'm wondering if that means it's getting turbo's...If it does, I'm getting a 2011.

No chance the E9x m3 gets turbos.

I will have to go check out exactly what Scott says about the 2012 M3. That's interesting that there is talk of more power. However, remember, although he has been pretty reliable, he isn't always correct. For now its an interesting possibility though. Maybe they are going to go with the 4.4L after all...

Thrumcap · 03-02-2010, 09:00 AM

Why would they do this right before the introduction of the next generation M3?

BMW269 · 03-02-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrumcap

Why would they do this right before the introduction of the next generation M3?

It is called "MARKETING", and only they know the reasons, otherwise they would not sell.

mkoesel · 03-02-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrumcap

Why would they do this right before the introduction of the next generation M3?

Not sure, but I suppose one could also ask why they would release an E82 M1 right near the end of the E82 platform.

BTW, anyone have SCOTT23's quote about the M3 getting more power? I don't see any new posts by him for almost a month now.

///M Rakete · 03-02-2010, 10:08 AM

So we're talking about an E92 M3, model year 2012, with a warmed over N54 twin-turbo 6, presumably the engine that will be in the 2011 M1 but will itself be dropped for a 4-banger?

My head is spinning.

///M Rakete · 03-02-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

No, It won't be a N54. It's going to be a twin turbo V6, not an I6, from reports.

V6! That's just wrong, BMW-wise anyway.

Well, time for the spies to keep an eye out for M3s testing on the Ring making non-V8 sounds.

Thanks

RandyB · 03-02-2010, 10:30 AM

Wow! In that case did we ever buy an E9X M3 at the right time!

Start saving for that GT3, N/A fellas...

Thrumcap · 03-02-2010, 10:33 AM

What is best guess as to when next generation M3 will be introduced? 2013?

02-20-2010, 10:03 PM	#45
dimabimmer Lieutenant Colonel 148 Rep 1,885 Posts Drives: '11 E92 M3 ZCP 6MT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Brooklyn to SoHo NYC iTrader: (0)	How does Porsche GT-2 Turbo 6 compares to M3 V8? ... maybe thats the direction future M is going to take? High Tech Turbo 6? __________________ '11 E92 M3 ZCP SG 6MT Tech Sound USB Heat Cloth Aluminium Sunshade http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422151
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03-01-2010, 08:38 PM	#56
michaeldorian Major 238 Rep 1,125 Posts Drives: M2 CS Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Currently North Carolina iTrader: (0)	Southlight mentioned on 1addicts that there's a possibility for an power boost for the 2012 M3 amidst the delays for the M1. This is starting to get interesting. __________________
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03-01-2010, 11:38 PM	#57
valbauer Banned 2 Rep 50 Posts Drives: E46, GT3 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Monica, CA iTrader: (0)	They should really just make an N/A 6 with somewhere between 360-420bhp, more torque than the current M3, and make it somewhere around 3000 lbs. Much like the E46 CSL except with quicker pickup
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03-02-2010, 09:00 AM	#60
Thrumcap Second Lieutenant 56 Rep 257 Posts Drives: 2019 Audi Q7 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	Why would they do this right before the introduction of the next generation M3?
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03-02-2010, 10:08 AM	#63
///M Rakete Rocket Scientist 33 Rep 948 Posts Drives: BMW 2018 X3 M40i Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Utah iTrader: (4)	So we're talking about an E92 M3, model year 2012, with a warmed over N54 twin-turbo 6, presumably the engine that will be in the 2011 M1 but will itself be dropped for a 4-banger? My head is spinning. __________________ 2015 BMW M5 Sedan Returned to BMW at end of lease.
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03-02-2010, 10:30 AM	#65
RandyB Lieutenant Colonel 20 Rep 1,504 Posts Drives: '03 330i, '09 M3 Coupe Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	Wow! In that case did we ever buy an E9X M3 at the right time! Start saving for that GT3, N/A fellas... __________________ '09 E92 M3 6MT \| Alpine White \| Black Leather \| EDC \| CL Trim \| 19s '03 E46 330i 6MT \| Electric Red \| Black Leather \| ZSP \| Bi-Xenons
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03-02-2010, 10:33 AM	#66
Thrumcap Second Lieutenant 56 Rep 257 Posts Drives: 2019 Audi Q7 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: MA iTrader: (0)	What is best guess as to when next generation M3 will be introduced? 2013?
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