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06-18-2011, 05:18 PM | #23 |
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Not true according to my dealer. My SA, Sales Mgr, and mechanics all encourage it.
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06-18-2011, 07:33 PM | #24 |
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Thanks- I'll ask around the regional forum for a better dealer to use then.
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06-18-2011, 09:41 PM | #25 | |
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I was just trying to have more reason backing trackrat. In a way, free maintenance actually does have something to do with our warranty. Given, we get replacement wearable items, such as brake pads and air filters, if we replace item such as those, we voided our warranty put forward by that act (even if they are to spec. or better) because they are provided free of charge, AND BMW's explicit statement in our warranty agreement. |
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06-19-2011, 04:02 PM | #26 | |
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Thats utterly wrong, false and has nothing to do with any act of any country or planet. No one, and i mean no car maker can void your warranty just because you change your own oil, air filter and brakes! You get free maintenance on those parts, because its part of customer service, to make you feel like you getting something for free because you spent $70k on a car. If you bought a $15k VW Jetta, you get 3 free oil changes. Many car makers give you free oil changes. Ten years ago, you would negotiate free oil changes with your dealer while you negotiate car price. Now you its just free to make the car buying experience more pleasant and easy to make you feel like you got more then what you payed for.
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06-19-2011, 05:04 PM | #27 |
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I wasn't saying you couldn't change them with the OEM equipment. I was trying to state that for aftermarket parts. Given, those items are still free with our maintenance. We cannot replace our airfilter or brakes with anything but OEM equipment.
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06-19-2011, 05:26 PM | #28 | |
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Yes you can! Your local parts store sells brakes and air filters that are not OEM, you and I can buy those parts and install them, and BMW WILL NOT void our warranty. BMW will simply not give you warranty for the Air filter or the brakes that you bought, everything else will still be under warranty.
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06-19-2011, 06:31 PM | #29 |
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“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.” Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. No warrantor may condition the continued validity of a warranty on the use of only authorized repair service and/or authorized replacement parts for non-warranty service and maintenance. For example, provisions such as, "This warranty is void if service is performed by anyone other than an authorized 'ABC' dealer and all replacement parts must be genuine 'ABC' parts," and the like, are prohibited where the service or parts are not covered by the warranty. These provisions violate the Act in two ways. First, they violate the section 102(c) ban against tying arrangements. Second, such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of "unauthorized" articles or service. This does not preclude a warrantor from expressly excluding liability for defects or damage caused by such "unauthorized" articles or service; nor does it preclude the warrantor from denying liability where the warrantor can demonstrate that the defect or damage was so caused.”
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06-19-2011, 07:03 PM | #30 | |
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Here is where the issue is as to why you dont understand the warranty. A dealer, cannot force EPA laws or any laws, a dealer can only follow laws. So if i asked a dealer to remove catalytic converter, they would not do it. But if they saw that you dont have catalytic converters while they were doing an oil change, the dealer would not call EPA or State Police to report you. If you took a jack hammer and started taking weight off of engine, then that would void your warranty under you so called "vehicle's engineered specs" and under a bunch of whole other things. Now an Engine is the same in US as it is in Europe. The difference between US car and European car is ... emissions. US cars have to have Catalityc converters or no one can sell cars in US. The engine was not designed around catalytic converters. The catalytic converters were designed to work with specific engine. Thus removing them cannot void your warranty as they were never part of the original design. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for the warranty claim. Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions (42 U.S.C. S 7541 (C) (3) (B)) The federal Clean Air Act requires vehicle makers to provide two emissions-related warranties -- a production warranty and a performance warranty. The production warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle is designed, built and equipped so that it conforms with emissions requirements at the time of sale. The performance warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle will comply with applicable emissions requirements as tested under state vehicle emissions inspection programs for the warranty periods specified in the law (for model year 1995 and later vehicles, the warranty is 2 years/24,000 miles for all emissions-related parts and 8 years/80,000 miles for the catalytic converter, electronic emissions control unit and on-board diagnostic device). The performance warranty is conditioned on the vehicle being properly maintained and operated. Like the Magnuson-Moss Act, vehicle manufacturers may not refuse warranty repairs under the Clean Air Acts performance and defect warranties merely because aftermarket parts have been installed on the vehicle. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for (causes) the warranty claim.
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06-19-2011, 07:43 PM | #31 | |
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Tinkering with an expensive car with complex electronics during warranty is a very stupid move IMO, but to each his own. At least poeple doing that should understand the risks. |
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06-19-2011, 07:59 PM | #32 | |
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Under federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer. This is applies to K&N filters.
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06-19-2011, 08:48 PM | #33 | ||
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For sake of clarity, I'm no lawyer
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06-19-2011, 09:10 PM | #34 | |
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What you thinking, is that because you get free maintenance then the dealer will deny you warranty. Because thats exactly how the FTC law sound like. What it says is; If the dealer gave you a free filter, then dealer can deny you warranty if they wish to, because they are the once providing you with that part, because its FREE. FREE is the key word. If you paid money for it, then they cant deny you warranty, because there was an exchange of money and good/s with your dealer. But, dealer is not going to deny you warranty when they have provided you with their own part even if its free. The dealer cant deny you warranty because you bought a filter made by Mr Magoo. Once again. Free maintenance is there to make your life easier and to make you feel special that car maker has done something nice for you. Its an incentive to buy their vehicle. Not every car maker gives you free maintenance, some give you a coupon book with $5 or $20 off that you can use towards oil changes and filter changes. Some give you nothing at all.
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06-19-2011, 10:51 PM | #35 |
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I never understood this whole concept of waiting until warranty is expired before modding.
If you wait until it expires and slap a supercharger on and blow the engine up = you pay for a new engine. If you buy a new car and slap a supercharger on immediately and blow the engine up = you pay for a new engine. In either case, you pay for a new engine. The only difference in waiting is, you're slapping a supercharger onto a car with 50K+ miles and you don't get to enjoy a really fast car for the first 50K miles of it's life. |
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06-19-2011, 11:06 PM | #36 | |
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Originally Posted by Dan Halen
Wtf- the SA at the closest dealer told me BMW doesnt work with Dinan anymore; install, etc. Is he full of it then? Quote:
Here's the link to Dinan's warranty. Dinan provides the warranty on breakdowns and failures caused by Dinan's mods, not BMW. If a Dinan mod leads to damage to your car, the BMW dealer may do the repair, but they will submit their request for payment to Dinan, not BMW... because BMW (car company BMW) absolutely won't cover you if your engine blows because you were running Dinan's performance software. Note, Dinan states that the car must be brought to an authorized Dinan dealer not any BMW dealer. Yes, I know many BMW dealers are also authorized Dinan dealers. But, if you happen to go to a BMW dealer who isn't a Dinan dealer, I guarantee you BMW will not be paying for the repairs to your car there if they determine that the Dinan mods caused the malfunction. But, don't take my word for it. Here's the disclaimer direct from Dinan's own website: The installation of Dinan Performance Products and systems may affect the vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty. The vehicle manufacturer’s new car limited warranty may not apply to modifications to a vehicle or the installation of any performance accessories or components attached to the vehicle which substantially alter the original engineering and/or operating specifications or which result in damage to other original vehicle manufacturer’s components. FWIW, I agree with you that many BMW dealers still sell and support Dinan products... but a local BMW dealer being lenient on warranty work for a customer who bought some Dinan products from them is far different than BMW the car company supporting Dinan products. For an example of BMW supporting an aftermarket manufacturer check out the relationship BMW has with Alpina. |
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06-19-2011, 11:39 PM | #37 | |
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EPA has nothing to do with your vehicle warranty! EPA does not enforce your warranty. FTC enforces and it clearly written above; that all car makers have to provide warranty for all emission parts that a car maker has installed. EPA enforces emission laws only! What EPA can do and will do, is not pass your vehicle when you take your emission test if you remove your catalytic converter. Nothing more, nothing less. Catalytic converter actually hinder the function and performance of an engine. This is why Europe has no Catalytic converters, they use other means to meet emission laws. But the engine design is still the same here in US and in Europe.
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06-19-2011, 11:45 PM | #38 | |
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06-20-2011, 12:57 AM | #39 | |
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You have repeated exactly what i have already said in fewer words. Thanks. Once again to sum things up. You will not lose your warranty if you or your local shop (not your dealer or any car dealer) removes catalytic converters and installs straight pipe/s.
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06-20-2011, 02:10 AM | #40 | |
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Thanks. p.s. The topic is about warranty, not emission laws. P.P.S I'm holding my breath for you to provide me with data that i have asked for above.
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06-20-2011, 08:40 AM | #41 | |
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Im still holding my breath.
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06-20-2011, 11:56 AM | #42 | |
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Since you are so great at insulting people i will repeat my self very slowly so you can understand with that awesome brain of yours. There are no catalytic converters in Germany on cars There are no catalytic converters in Germany on cars. There are no catalytic converters in Germany on cars. German Engines are designed with out Catalytic Converters. German Engines are designed with out Catalytic Converters. German Engines are designed with out Catalytic Converters. Installing Catalytic converters "alters" the original design of the vehicle. Installing Catalytic converters "alters" the original design of the vehicle. Installing Catalytic converters "alters" the original design of the vehicle. If you understand this, jump on your left foot and blink three times.
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06-20-2011, 12:37 PM | #43 | |
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06-20-2011, 12:48 PM | #44 |
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I have lived in USA for over 20 years.
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