BPMsport S65 Refresher / E46 Build / Forensic Knock Analysis

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Ezio

it was a fun read.

it looks like if anyone needs a new S65 motor under warranty in years to come, BMW is going to have to make one in Germany then ship it over to the US if you live here. haha that will take forever.

+1

And with all the hysteria by some members about the S65 rod bearings. I'm surprised with such short supply of S65's, that there arent a bunch of E9X M3's waiting for replacement engines.

[Lalit@autocouture]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Looks good.

.

[///Matthew]

Originally Posted by Lalit@AUTOcouture

.

.

[bde]

Looking good!

Wouldn't it make more sense to get a Dinan's stroker or you wanted to keep the OEM equation alive?

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by bde

Looking good!

Wouldn't it make more sense to get a Dinan's stroker or you wanted to keep the OEM equation alive?

The Dinan stroker was one of the options we were considering. We have tuned vehicles with stroker motors before. However, since our testing is primarily on stock NA motors, we decided against it.

We were also seriously considering headers. The new motor comes with a two year warranty from BMW, so we want to make sure the motor is strong and has no issues on the track before modifying hardware.

[SYZ]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

The Dinan stroker was one of the options we were considering. We have tuned vehicles with stroker motors before. However, since our testing is primarily on stock NA motors, we decided against it.

We were also seriously considering headers. The new motor comes with a two year warranty from BMW, so we want to make sure the motor is strong and has no issues on the track before modifying hardware.

Concerned about retaining warranty yet racing and modifying the ECU I feel like I'm on a SRT4 forum.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by SYZ

Concerned about retaining warranty yet racing and modifying the ECU I feel like I'm on a SRT4 forum.

Enthusiasts regularly take their cars to the track with no concern of warranty issues. We are talking about a street car that the new motor is going into. The motor that we will rebuild is the one going into a dedicated track car. Two completely separate beasts.

[BPMSport]

Turns out the alternator is on back order for another month and a half. As much as I want to wait for it, I don't think I have it in me.. Will be picking up a number of parts for it today (if the starter came in) and will post pictures later. The motor still hasn't cleared customs, the wait is killing me!

[rev9k]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Enthusiasts regularly take their cars to the track with no concern of warranty issues. We are talking about a street car that the new motor is going into. The motor that we will rebuild is the one going into a dedicated track car. Two completely separate beasts.

that's just foolish plain and simple. Even if the manual talks about racing the car and race prep, the dealer can den claims for anything they want. And racing is a good start.

I agreee with the above though.. You guys are concerend about headers voiding a warranty, but you tune ECUs ??

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by rev9k

that's just foolish plain and simple. Even if the manual talks about racing the car and race prep, the dealer can den claims for anything they want. And racing is a good start.

I agreee with the above though.. You guys are concerend about headers voiding a warranty, but you tune ECUs ??

The dealer can deny claims - in fact, there is a permanent mark on my M3's history under the "vehicle comments" section of the warranty history screen.

It was entered in 2010 and says that my vehicle was observed on the racetrack and that it is not eligible for extended service contracts or CPO. At about 5,000 miles I complained about the e-brake not holding. At about 20K I did again, and they said that my track use caused "over temperature" of the wheel bearings, causing them to leak and contaminate the emergency brake parking shoes. It was pretty ludicrous. They wound up replacing those brake shoes under "goodwill" but refused to cover the bearings. They looked fine to me and no issues since.

Dealers can try to deny things like this (especially rotors/pads and suspension components) - but they will have a much harder time denying an engine warranty claim due to track use - unless there was an over rev or something to that effect. It's easy for them to point at hardware related issues, and much more difficult on the software side considering the transparency.

In my opinion the chances of BMW denying coverage from physical hardware modifications is much higher than the chance of them blaming software. I've seen them deny a spun connecting rod bearing warranty claim because the car had a crankshaft pulley!

It's fair to say that people should be able to track without concern, while understanding that certain wear parts may be their responsibility if the wear is determined to be out of characteristic.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by SYZ

Concerned about retaining warranty yet racing and modifying the ECU I feel like I'm on a SRT4 forum.

Software can be invisible. A stroker, not so much.

Originally Posted by rev9k

that's just foolish plain and simple. Even if the manual talks about racing the car and race prep, the dealer can den claims for anything they want. And racing is a good start.

I agreee with the above though.. You guys are concerend about headers voiding a warranty, but you tune ECUs ??

It's easier to remove software than headers before a warranty claim.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Software can be invisible. A stroker, not so much.

The stroker is surprisingly incognito. Perhaps we will do that to the race build, will have to see

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by jjw2331

I'm curious about your thoughts on the new vibra-technics engine mounts. Also, pics of the rod + main bearings out of the e90 M3. Great project and thread!

Thank you!

I'm very interested in trying them out as well. One of my main considerations was ensuring that it wasn't to aggressive. They do have race and street versions, and I elected to go with the street ones since it's not a dedicated track car. I did speak with a couple of friends that have installed them or run them in E46 and E36 M3's, and they said that it's not overkill and was a net positive change to the car. I was surprised that my stock motor mounts were on their way out at less than 60K miles!

Here is the graph from Vibra-Technics showing the compression difference vs the BMW OE Mount:



Just received a call about the status of the engine. The shipment was due to arrive in the Ontario warehouse yesterday. It appears that it's taking some time to get through customs, but should arrive in two days according to what they told me. The wait is killing me!!

Also have had the VAC bearings and bolts here for awhile. Trying to decide if it's worth replacing the Connecting rod bolts. Probably won't unless a few experts I seek out highly recommend it. Very nice hardware though!

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

The stroker is surprisingly incognito. Perhaps we will do that to the race build, will have to see

Would be very interested in that. If the Dinan stroker was a little more affordable I would be all over it.

[tjsabec]

What kind of levels of lead and or copper were you guys seeing in your oil analysis that caused you to be concerned with the E90's bearings?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by tjsabec

What kind of levels of lead and or copper were you guys seeing in your oil analysis that caused you to be concerned with the E90's bearings?

It was between 30 and 46 on every report, although copper always remained under 5.

The last two reports were 44 and 43 respectively @ 6K mile intervals.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Am I right in understanding that the ECU operates a fixed range of ignition advance....for example say from 12 - 32 degrees on a stock car?
And if so, if a tuner was to create an aggressive ignition map which raised the ignition advance target to say 37 degrees...would the consequence of that be the other end of the range would be also be raised...ie the new range would become 17 - 37 degrees?

Comments anyone?

[StealYourFace]

Originally Posted by rev9k

that's just foolish plain and simple. Even if the manual talks about racing the car and race prep, the dealer can den claims for anything they want. And racing is a good start.

I agreee with the above though.. You guys are concerend about headers voiding a warranty, but you tune ECUs ??

HPDE isnt racing.

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

The dealer can deny claims - in fact, there is a permanent mark on my M3's history under the "vehicle comments" section of the warranty history screen.

It was entered in 2010 and says that my vehicle was observed on the racetrack and that it is not eligible for extended service contracts or CPO. At about 5,000 miles I complained about the e-brake not holding. At about 20K I did again, and they said that my track use caused "over temperature" of the wheel bearings, causing them to leak and contaminate the emergency brake parking shoes. It was pretty ludicrous. They wound up replacing those brake shoes under "goodwill" but refused to cover the bearings. They looked fine to me and no issues since.

Dealers can try to deny things like this (especially rotors/pads and suspension components) - but they will have a much harder time denying an engine warranty claim due to track use - unless there was an over rev or something to that effect. It's easy for them to point at hardware related issues, and much more difficult on the software side considering the transparency.

In my opinion the chances of BMW denying coverage from physical hardware modifications is much higher than the chance of them blaming software. I've seen them deny a spun connecting rod bearing warranty claim because the car had a crankshaft pulley!

It's fair to say that people should be able to track without concern, while understanding that certain wear parts may be their responsibility if the wear is determined to be out of characteristic.

I always find it obsurd when dealers try to find dumb things to deny a warranty claim. That grease from a sealed wheel bearing made your e brake shoes not work takes the cake! Why do dealers do this? Doesn't it make more sense to perform the work and get paid by the maufacturer for the job? I used to be a sales manager at a dealership for almost 5 years before getting into banking, my service dept went out of their way to get warranty claims approved. Often they would get me involved to use my relationship with the manufacturer (or aftermarket warranty company) to get a tough one approved. It made the most sense to keep our customers happy and get our service dept work.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

.

Welcome back.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Welcome back.

let me know how your project is coming along that we discussed awhile back.

Thanks!

[Someone?]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

HPDE isnt racing.




I always find it obsurd when dealers try to find dumb things to deny a warranty claim. That grease from a sealed wheel bearing made your e brake shoes not work takes the cake! Why do dealers do this? Doesn't it make more sense to perform the work and get paid by the maufacturer for the job? I used to be a sales manager at a dealership for almost 5 years before getting into banking, my service dept went out of their way to get warranty claims approved. Often they would get me involved to use my relationship with the manufacturer (or aftermarket warranty company) to get a tough one approved. It made the most sense to keep our customers happy and get our service dept work.

I couldnt agree more, why the hell dont they just get paid to fix the problem, it doesnt come outta there pockets and keeping the customer Happy should be #1.

My buddy just bought a Chevy SS (SWEET!) and the Dealer Manager was telling us there very lenient on allowing after market parts, He even said they would warranty dealer installed Superchargers! and they where not even a rip off in price.

[BPMSport]

Aright guys... finally a (small) update today. Got a call from McKenna BMW and the starter I was waiting for finally arrived! Then got another call that a DINAN X-Pipe was being installed, and a Stage II software was needed to complete the build. So off to Mckenna I went.

On the way there I realized I forgot to export the tuned file, but luckily I had my LTE hotspot with me. Can you hear me now? Good



Once I got there I met with my SA and met the customer. He's a member on here also. I was blown away when I saw the car - was not expecting an Individual Monte Carlo 2013 6MT. It was absolutely beautiful - definitely one of my favorite colors:





Mods included 20" HRE's, OSS headlights, DINAN X-Pipe, Akra Rear section with CF Tips, and a few other bits.





I've never seen BMW Individual stitching in blue before, so the ing began as I opened the door.





After that we went for a test spin (in pretty bad Friday afternoon traffic), and while in the car I got a call telling me that my engine was still stuck in customs at LAX, to check back Monday

Then it was off to the parts department to get my goodies

After battling traffic for about two hours, and then doing a few remote sessions, I finally got to take a look at the parts I picked up while I was there:

The bags of parts:



Coil Packs (note that the newer ones do look slight different than earlier revisions):







Precat oxygen sensors:





The long awaited starter:(also note that the newer versions are more beefed up than the previous generations to support the auto start/stop feature)







I also couldn't resist, since I'm an avid BMW paraphernalia user - to pick up an ///M laptop bag to supplement the BMW one that one of our customers purchased as a gift last year:



Last, but not least, a few other things for the build - I figured I'd add a couple touches to the interior -

-New ///M Floormats (not pictured), injectors (since I'll need them for the other build regardless), BMW Performance alcantara E-Brake Handle and boot, and DINAN pedals (yes, I need to source a third one for my clutch! )

Also pictured is the power-steering reservoir overflow release catch kit - to keep the engine bay clean during track sessions when it releases pressure at high RPM. Thank's Steve W for hooking me up with that!



More updates to come, so stay tuned!