BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #23
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Gotta remember that on a race like these, the non-intercooled VT1's will start losing power in the upper gears at the IAT's rise. That's why I was able to tie two of them with my stock turbo bolt on 335.

The dyno only shows you the power it puts down in perfect conditions. Do 15 pulls in a row going from gears 2 through 6 on the dyno and I will put money down that it would drop to something like 75 to 100 RWHP.

They key in races like this is to keep power as constant as possible by preventing IAT's from rising, i.e. intercooler and water/meth injection.
Adam, remember though, the two VT1 non-intercooled cars you ran, one was 6MT, and the other had a boost leak at the throttle body boots at the time of those runs. But a FBO 335I, like your old setup, was no slouch.

FWIW here's a ESS VT3, built motor, vs a MP4-12C, the VT3 was at ~10psi here.

__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #24
RingMeister01
Croatian
RingMeister01's Avatar
No_Country
880
Rep
3,613
Posts

Drives: PORSCHE
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
^^ I remember this one! Drew, that motor is so dreamy
__________________
NARDO GREY '18 PANAMERA TURBO
Ducati V4 S Corse (track only)
Husqvarna FS450 (track only)
Looking for an SUV
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2013, 03:30 PM   #25
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3374
Rep
6,765
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Adam, remember though, the two VT1 non-intercooled cars you ran, one was 6MT, and the other had a boost leak at the throttle body boots at the time of those runs. But a FBO 335I, like your old setup, was no slouch.

FWIW here's a ESS VT3, built motor, vs a MP4-12C, the VT3 was at ~10psi here.

Wow you pulled Greg very hard even though it looks like you spun a little on the hit. Insane especially since your car wasn't even running 100%.

Yeah when I ran Roman he said he was down like 25 HP, but then so was I as my meth flow was intermittent. I even posted the log of my run against him way back when showing my meth flow was going on/off/on/off, etc. But the run against PG was solid. No issues on either side.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #26
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Wow you pulled Greg very hard even though it looks like you spun a little on the hit. Insane especially since your car wasn't even running 100%.

Yeah when I ran Roman he said he was down like 25 HP, but then so was I as my meth flow was intermittent. I even posted the log of my run against him way back when showing my meth flow was going on/off/on/off, etc. But the run against PG was solid. No issues on either side.
Cool deal, correct, PG was the 6MT car. Can't wait for AA4 Brother!
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2013, 03:34 PM   #27
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
DLSJ5's Avatar
United_States
501
Rep
4,033
Posts

Drives: 2016 F82 M4 ZCP
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
^^ I remember this one! Drew, that motor is so dreamy
Thanks man!
__________________
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ
Shift-S3ctor E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH
Appreciate 0
      08-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #28
sales@ESSTuning
sales@ESSTuning's Avatar
389
Rep
3,149
Posts

Drives: ESS M3 / M4
Join Date: May 2007
Location: AZ

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Gotta remember that on a race like these, the non-intercooled VT1's will start losing power in the upper gears at the IAT's rise. That's why I was able to tie two of them with my stock turbo bolt on 335.

The dyno only shows you the power it puts down in perfect conditions. Do 15 pulls in a row going from gears 2 through 6 on the dyno and I will put money down that it would drop to something like 75 to 100 RWHP.

They key in races like this is to keep power as constant as possible by preventing IAT's from rising, i.e. intercooler and water/meth injection.
Supercharger coolers and factory coolers require airflow. Airflow will affect any cars power that is strapped to a dyno doing back to back runs. You would lose very little whp on back to back runs on the road as aftermarket and factory coolers have access to more air VS a typical dyno. The difference of 20-30 deg AIT on these cars when supercharged makes very little to no difference say maybe 10-15 whp. On the dyno lower intake temps can often be measured in small gains but this is not enough on a 550+ hp car to make a noticeable difference on the road. If you want more reliable power over extended exposure to heat for something like track use you would be better off upgrading the factory cooling like the oil cooler and radiator IMO rather than adding water meth to any system. I would use water meth over upgrading factory coolers only to squeeze a little more power out of the car on a dyno, for short runs or if the fuel quality was poor and the extra octane boost was needed as it would get you about 5-15 whp depending on your ambient temps and fuel quality.

Look at the increase in AIT's on the VT1 tested in this link VS real world performance. You can clearly see that the AIT's increased after several back to back runs with no cooldown and performance was not limited.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=ess+vt1
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #29
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3374
Rep
6,765
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Supercharger coolers and factory coolers require airflow. Airflow will affect any cars power that is strapped to a dyno doing back to back runs. You would lose very little whp on back to back runs on the road as aftermarket and factory coolers have access to more air VS a typical dyno. The difference of 20-30 deg AIT on these cars when supercharged makes very little to no difference say maybe 10-15 whp. On the dyno lower intake temps can often be measured in small gains but this is not enough on a 550+ hp car to make a noticeable difference on the road. If you want more reliable power over extended exposure to heat for something like track use you would be better off upgrading the factory cooling like the oil cooler and radiator IMO rather than adding water meth to any system. I would use water meth over upgrading factory coolers only to squeeze a little more power out of the car on a dyno, for short runs or if the fuel quality was poor and the extra octane boost was needed as it would get you about 5-15 whp depending on your ambient temps and fuel quality.

Look at the increase in AIT's on the VT1 tested in this link VS real world performance. You can clearly see that the AIT's increased after several back to back runs with no cooldown and performance was not limited.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=ess+vt1
I was trying to interpolated the data I was getting on my 335 from the tons of data logging and analysis I used to do (i.e. what happens with power/boost for changes in IAT's, coolant, DA's, octane etc etc) and apply that to the S/C M3 platform. Turns out that what I'm finding is that some of those things that I though were "principles" do not carry forward because the M3 ECU and the S/C tune are completely different as compared with the 335 ECU/tune.

This may be why I'm getting terrible results when I tried to add water/meth. Yeah I'm getting cooler IAT's but damn I'm screwing around with octane, air-fuel ratio, etc and it's just not working out because the M3 ECU and ESS tune work differently.

I'm shedding my stubborness on this topic and beginning to understand and see what you are saying here Roman.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      08-09-2013, 03:14 PM   #30
Jive
Lieutenant
Jive's Avatar
156
Rep
580
Posts

Drives: 2013 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by per View Post
This car was fast , i didnīt have a chanse
That pull...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
FWIW here's a ESS VT3, built motor, vs a MP4-12C, the VT3 was at ~10psi here.
Now thats more like it...
__________________
2013 E92 M3 Mineral White Fox Red / Black
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2013, 11:16 AM   #31
BPMSport
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
BPMSport's Avatar
United_States
3381
Rep
7,539
Posts


Drives: Harrop M3 / F10 M5 / F82 M4
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2000 BMW M5  [0.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [7.50]
2015 BMW M3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M5  [0.00]
Didn't realize the MP4 was that fast.. Thing is a beast. Time to search YouTube for MP4 vs Aventador.

Edit: Aventador is faster by a large margin.
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #32
Longboarder
Major General
Longboarder's Avatar
3374
Rep
6,765
Posts

Drives: 2016 BMW i8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Didn't realize the MP4 was that fast.. Thing is a beast. Time to search YouTube for MP4 vs Aventador.
Apparently there was a bone stock one trapping the quarter mile at 134 from what I heard a while back. So yeah insane for a claimed 616 (or whatever they are) bhp.
__________________
Current BMWs: 2021 X5M, 2012 e92 M3, 2022 X5 40i, 2016 X5 50i
2015 Porsche 991 Turbo S
a couple others
IG: longboarder949; YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Appreciate 0
      08-10-2013, 03:26 PM   #33
Someone?
Perception is King
Someone?'s Avatar
United_States
131
Rep
1,703
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by per View Post
The sedan M3 is not mine,so i am not shure why he havenīt changedit
I would have to guess with the stock exhaust your down ungodly amounts of power, with an MRF set up youd probably gain 70hp!? and then that car wouldnt have whooped you guys so bad if at all.
__________________
Perception and Reality are Two totally different Things.
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #34
Black Gold
Major General
590
Rep
5,396
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibmike View Post
I would have to guess with the stock exhaust your down ungodly amounts of power, with an MRF set up youd probably gain 70hp!? and then that car wouldnt have whooped you guys so bad if at all.
Dude....

Name:  image.jpg
Views: 277
Size:  54.6 KB
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2013, 09:56 AM   #35
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,682
Posts

Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Drew looks like u pilled 2-3 buses on the MP4 .... With a boost leak no less, that's pretty impressive IMO
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #36
Ezio
Brigadier General
Ezio's Avatar
United_States
380
Rep
3,934
Posts

Drives: 2023 Alfa Romeo, 2023 m240i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

it annoys me how hes running stock exhaust. thats something i would change way before adding a blower.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2013, 10:33 AM   #37
1MOREMOD
-
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
11815
Rep
23,187
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
it annoys me how hes running stock exhaust. thats something i would change way before adding a blower.
kind of like a bbk and crap tires, or any one of the other mods that dont seem to follow common sense around here. usually there is a progression of mods and the next one builds on the past ones. not everyone has that vision.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|apr gt 250 & splitter|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2013, 10:43 AM   #38
1MOREMOD
-
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
11815
Rep
23,187
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Per isn't running a stock exhaust.
Well than slap me. Guess he does have extra 70 hp
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:26 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST