American Racing Longtube Header Results

[MFL]

Feel free to paypal him some funds to go dyno at a shop of your choosing...

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by M.Hagen

I've read the OP and the original IMG thread. Nowhere does it state that just the headers alone are 40+whp gain. It has always been referenced as the complete ARH package, which happens to include a midpipe and decat. Even the posts that RG links to above, the member references the three-piece kit a a part of his gain.

In the link I posted, m3london says he has high flow cats in place, and no tune, not a decat. And although you're right that they never said headers alone...they were asked that specific question many times and lead people to believe it was headers alone. Look at Nick's comments, he emphasizes the factory headers being so restrictive, and his being so much better. M3london says there's no power to be made by decat and midpipe replacement -- again leading the reader to believe these big power gains are done by headers alone. Nick just let that slide without correcting it.

But we know, or at least people who have followed this issue know, decat and midpipes make some pretty big gains. Mastermind with their MXP crosspipe which also relocates the "X" makes some very large gains and can be found on the outlier supercharged cars in the Dyno Database (see E90///M3 results).

So although technically ARH didn't say it...they certainly allowed people to believe it, or at the very least didn't correct information about their product that they knew was inaccurate and giving a wrong impression. And if they didn't know it was inaccurate...then...well there goes the credentials down the crapper of allegedly doing what much bigger and better funded companies like SuperSprint and Dinan couldn't do.

[MFL]

Send my shop some headers, I'll prove this right quick

[dwennerberg]

BWs claims are right on the money. I have the DRFs to prove. PM me me for them and I will send them.
Don't Know About ARHs claims.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by regular guy

In the link I posted, m3london says he has high flow cats in place, and no tune, not a decat. And although you're right that they never said headers alone...they were asked that specific question many times and lead people to believe it was headers alone. Look at Nick's comments, he emphasizes the factory headers being so restrictive, and his being so much better. M3london says there's no power to be made by decat and midpipe replacement -- again leading the reader to believe these big power gains are done by headers alone. Nick just let that slide without correcting it.

But we know, or at least people who have followed this issue know, decat and midpipes make some pretty big gains. Mastermind with their MXP crosspipe which also relocates the "X" makes some very large gains and can be found on the outlier supercharged cars in the Dyno Database (see E90///M3 results).

So although technically ARH didn't say it...they certainly allowed people to believe it, or at the very least didn't correct information about their product that they knew was inaccurate and giving a wrong impression. And if they didn't know it was inaccurate...then...well there goes the credentials down the crapper of allegedly doing what much bigger and better funded companies like SuperSprint and Dinan couldn't do.

I think there's either a failure to communicate here or just a flat-out misrepresentation, but the only way to know for sure will be back-to-back catless to catless.

Considering supercharged cars going from some other company's catless midpipe to these headers (with the attendant mandatory ARH midpipe) are not getting to 40whp gains, I'd be shocked if an NA car that already has a catless midpipe picks up more than 10-15hp. But I'm ready to be shocked, because that'd be great.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I think there's either a failure to communicate here or just a flat-out misrepresentation, but the only way to know for sure will be back-to-back catless to catless.

Considering supercharged cars going from some other company's catless midpipe to these headers (with the attendant mandatory ARH midpipe) are not getting to 40whp gains, I'd be shocked if an NA car that already has a catless midpipe picks up more than 10-15hp. But I'm ready to be shocked, because that'd be great.

+1. Maybe it's because I'm still half asleep this morning, but just glancing through this thread, I thought the claim was for headers ONLY.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I think there's either a failure to communicate here or just a flat-out misrepresentation, but the only way to know for sure will be back-to-back catless to catless.

Considering supercharged cars going from some other company's catless midpipe to these headers (with the attendant mandatory ARH midpipe) are not getting to 40whp gains, I'd be shocked if an NA car that already has a catless midpipe picks up more than 10-15hp. But I'm ready to be shocked, because that'd be great.

And I forgot to mention, m3london promised to update with dyno graphs and such with the latest Tri-Y design as soon as he got home that night. He must not have ever got home because he's now disappeared.

I'm going to say it again. We've heard all of this before...over and over again. M24 headers, and guys who tried to explain their crappy dyno results by repeating what their faux tuner told them "the ECU adapts" to give more power over time. They all had their baseline dynos and were on their way to the dyno for "after" runs to prove the headers and tunes really do adapt. Then we never hear from them again. I've heard the same "ECU adapts" nonsense repeatedly and knew of at least two or three people posted "on their way to the dyno" and will post the proof when they get home. Funny how they all never seem to get home. Now m3london is the latest casualty to disappear and no longer responding to requests for updates. Like I said, I'm a simple guy with simple reasoning and it doesn't take too much imagination to realize why they never post the results.

I have a feeling we'll be waiting a very long time to see verified gains anywhere near 45-49 whp on an independent dyno for an NA car with headers, high flow cats, and no tune.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by regular guy

And I forgot to mention, m3london promised to update with dyno graphs and such with the latest Tri-Y design as soon as he got home that night. He must not have ever got home because he's now disappeared.

I'm going to say it again. We've heard all of this before...over and over again. M24 headers, and guys who tried to explain their crappy dyno results by repeating what their faux tuner told them "the ECU adapts" to give more power over time. They all had their baseline dynos and were on their way to the dyno for "after" runs to prove the headers and tunes really do adapt. Then we never hear from them again. I've heard the same "ECU adapts" nonsense repeatedly and knew of at least two or three people posted "on their way to the dyno" and will post the proof when they get home. Funny how they all never seem to get home. Now m3london is the latest casualty to disappear and no longer responding to requests for updates. Like I said, I'm a simple guy with simple reasoning and it doesn't take too much imagination to realize why they never post the results.

I have a feeling we'll be waiting a very long time to see verified gains anywhere near 45-49 whp on an independent dyno for an NA car with headers, high flow cats, and no tune.

Agreed.

He's already walked it back some in one of his early posts in the first thread:

Rich, there's no question that the testing you're looking for will be conducted probably sooner than later. Many of these cars have upgraded exhaust with the stock manifolds. The majority of the power is in the headers I can assure you. On a bone stock car with just an exhaust upgrade, with cats deleted, I'm still fairly confident we'll see 30RW gains at a minimum before tuning.
I am really impressed by the cylinder heads these M3's are equipped with. They remind me quite a bit of Ford's 5.0L Coyote. Absolutely badass!

Nick

[Pro-AM3]

Originally Posted by M33too

Also, where does it say anywhere that "...i decided to go to powerhaus"????

Ninja editing does wonders, you do know it shows when you edited your content, yes? So im not even going to continue to debate with you, as that is 3 instances in a row that are deceptive. Good luck with whatever it is your trying to do.

[M33too]

Originally Posted by BossManE90

Ninja editing does wonders, you do know it shows when you edited your content, yes? So im not even going to continue to debate with you, as that is 3 instances in a row that are deceptive. Good luck with whatever it is your trying to do.

That's great. I went back to edit the post to fix any punctuation as I typed it up on my phone. I'm trying to break my personal record is all I'm trying to do. Have a nice day.

[M33too]

Looks like this Thursday I'll be heading to Maryland International Raceway to see what I can do. Prep should be very good and weather looks be desirable. Wish me luck! Have the car on the lift for a once over (don't mind the lambo ):

[Nick ARH]

Guys, like I've already stated, the truth will be seen by all I assure you. And I stand by my statement, the factory manifolds are severely restricted, NA or not. For that you should be thrilled as there's huge power to be had without breaking the bank by going into the engine. In fact, going into the engine (cam swaps and/or cylinder head porting) makes the need for headers even greater.
I believe an average of 25 RWHP is what most will see once the headers are swapped in with your upgraded exhaust still in place, with or without cats. Your restriction is your manifolds. That you can be sure of. And that restriction will be made perfectly clear right off the hit of the throttle once the headers are swapped in.

Nick

[81bear]

Originally Posted by Nick ARH

Guys, like I've already stated, the truth will be seen by all I assure you. And I stand by my statement, the factory manifolds are severely restricted, NA or not. For that you should be thrilled as there's huge power to be had without breaking the bank by going into the engine. In fact, going into the engine (cam swaps and/or cylinder head porting) makes the need for headers even greater.
I believe an average of 25 RWHP is what most will see once the headers are swapped in with your upgraded exhaust still in place, with or without cats. Your restriction is your manifolds. That you can be sure of. And that restriction will be made perfectly clear right off the hit of the throttle once the headers are swapped in.

Nick

Nick... So we are all clear, when you say "headers", you are referring to your header system (headers + x-pipe). If that is the case I assume your avg. 25 RWHP claim will work as follows:

Stock car with full Akra Evo system will see a 25 rwhp increase by swapping the stock headers and Akra xpipe for the ARH header system (headers + xipe). Do I have it right?

[81bear]

Originally Posted by M33too

Looks like this Thursday I'll be heading to Maryland International Raceway to see what I can do. Prep should be very good and weather looks be desirable. Wish me luck! Have the car on the lift for a once over (don't mind the lambo ):

Love the lambo! hate the camouflage wrap!

Good luck at Maryland! Please report back with your results!

[bakaneul]

Originally Posted by 81bear

Nick... So we are all clear, when you say "headers", you are referring to your header system (headers + x-pipe). If that is the case I assume your avg. 25 RWHP claim will work as follows:

Stock car with full Akra Evo system will see a 25 rwhp increase by swapping the stock headers and Akra xpipe for the ARH header system (headers + xipe). Do I have it right?

Nick's headers are long enough to delete the primary cats if I understand correctly right? And we all know deleting our primary cats with STOCK headers will gain 25-30hp, which telling us the gain from Nick's headers are only about 15-20hp? I don't understand why Nick keeps avoiding to speak out on this.

[Pro-AM3]

Originally Posted by ///Mint

Nick's headers are long enough to delete the primary cats if I understand correctly right? And we all know deleting our primary cats with STOCK headers will gain 25-30hp, which telling us the gain from Nick's headers are only about 15-20hp? I don't understand why Nick keeps avoiding to speak out on this.

we should start a gofundme account to get a set of these out an impartial 3rd party and settle it

[MPowerZ32]

"I believe an average of 25 RWHP is what most will see once the headers are swapped in with your upgraded exhaust still in place, with or without cats. "

If I understood it correctly, Nick already said the gain will be around 25whp on top of catless exhaust. Or did i miss anything?

[bakaneul]

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

"I believe an average of 25 RWHP is what most will see once the headers are swapped in with your upgraded exhaust still in place, with or without cats. "

If I understood it correctly, Nick already said the gain will be around 25whp on top of catless exhaust. Or did i miss anything?

You're right. I didn't read it carefully, my fault.

[JRV]

It seems to me regardless of wether or not the headers alone make the announced power or with the x-pipe combo, it still makes more power than just x-pipe. So they know something and it's probably the design. I think for the price, it seems fair. You are essentially only paying 2k for headers if you assume a good x-pipe is 1500. Do a before and after dyno and if the claims aren't there, just return it. We know with a blown motor it definitely makes power, and no one else had done it prior. So why not just try it and then entertain us with your results
Edit: just saw triple step for NA was 4700. That sounds more like the M tax everyone is used to haha. So yea it's more like 3200 for headers but hey if it makes the power, it's not too bad considering you could do worse for 5k on this car.

[81bear]

Originally Posted by MPowerZ32

"I believe an average of 25 RWHP is what most will see once the headers are swapped in with your upgraded exhaust still in place, with or without cats. "

If I understood it correctly, Nick already said the gain will be around 25whp on top of catless exhaust. Or did i miss anything?

Right so the 25whp gain can be attributed to the header system (header + xpipe).

I'd really like to see a before and after comparison of a stock and S/C car with the MRF xpipe and Akra rear section vs ARH header system w/o cats.

[M33too]

Originally Posted by BossManE90

we should start a gofundme account to get a set of these out an impartial 3rd party and settle it

I am pretty impartial. If something doesn't work on my personal car, I don't use it.

[Pro-AM3]

Id be willing to donate $100 to an IMPARTIAL 3rd party to test