M3 vs cayman S

[michaeldorian]

Porsche offering 1.9% on all new models. This makes the Cayman S pretty tempting.. http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/943295/

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by michaeldorian

Porsche offering 1.9% on all new models. This makes the Cayman S pretty tempting.. http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/943295/

The new PDK transmission and DI motor are awesome, substantially quicker than the previous generation.

The previous track-oriented issues are seemingly fixed with the new motor, no more air/oil separator problems giving giant smoke screens, no more oil starvation problems with prolonged high G corners, even the soft brake pedal with R tires appears to have been corrected (MC/ABS issue).

[TLud]

Originally Posted by consolidated

The new PDK transmission and DI motor are awesome, substantially quicker than the previous generation.

The previous track-oriented issues are seemingly fixed with the new motor, no more air/oil separator problems giving giant smoke screens, no more oil starvation problems with prolonged high G corners, even the soft brake pedal with R tires appears to have been corrected (MC/ABS issue).

+1,000,000

Even the previous version made it a close call for me between it and the M3. The Cayman S has a superior gearbox, more neutral handling and better turn-in out of the box, is much lighter on its feet, and has slightly better steering feel than the M3. I only chose the M3 because of the higher revving and more powerful engine and since this car is my daily driver, I wanted something with slightly more emphasis on comfort and practicality.

If I had tested the new version with the added power from the new DI engine, PDK transmission, and most of the kinks worked out, I might be in a different car now. I'm fairly certain that those dismissing the Cayman S as a "lesser" P-car or as being outclassed by the M3 have never actually driven it or a C2S hard.

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by TLud

+1,000,000

The Cayman S has a superior gearbox, more neutral handling and better turn-in out of the box, is much lighter on its feet, and has slightly better steering feel than the M3. I only chose the M3 because of the higher revving and more powerful engine and since this car is my daily driver, I wanted something with slightly more emphasis on comfort and practicality.

If I had tested the new version with the added power from the new DI engine, PDK transmission, and most of the kinks worked out, I might be in a different car now. I'm fairly certain that those dismissing the Cayman S as a "lesser" P-car or as being outclassed by the M3 have never actually driven it or a C2S hard.

Tlud,
Agree with everything you said except about PDK/DCT. I know I'm swimming against the current here, but having driven both, the DCT feels quicker AND smoother. Even in sport plus mode (or whatever it's called) the PDK felt like it had slightly slower shifts, with a minute pause in between gears.

But then it had no 2nd gear lag like DCT, hopefully fixed soon for me.

[TLud]

Originally Posted by consolidated

Tlud,
Agree with everything you said except about PDK/DCT. I know I'm swimming against the current here, but having driven both, the DCT feels quicker AND smoother. Even in sport plus mode (or whatever it's called) the PDK felt like it had slightly slower shifts, with a minute pause in between gears.

But then it had no 2nd gear lag like DCT, hopefully fixed soon for me.

Sorry, my previous post wasn't clear. I have not tried the Cayman S with the PDK. I was comparing the MT in the two cars.

Even though the dual-clutch tranny isn't what I want at this point in my life, I'm curious to try out the PDK to find out for myself how it compares against the DCT. You may not be in the majority, but you're not the first person I've heard come down on the DCT's side of the fence.

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by consolidated

The new PDK transmission and DI motor are awesome, substantially quicker than the previous generation.

The previous track-oriented issues are seemingly fixed with the new motor, no more air/oil separator problems giving giant smoke screens, no more oil starvation problems with prolonged high G corners, even the soft brake pedal with R tires appears to have been corrected (MC/ABS issue).

My air/shit separator fails all the time..that's why I buy black underwear..LOL

Just kidding...an old Navy joke.

-SZ

[mixja]

From CarTest simulation software for standing quarter mile:

- Cayman S PDK - 12.85s @ 111.50mph
- M3 Coupe MT - 12.84s @ 111.17mph
- M3 Coupe DCT - 12.61s @ 113.90mph
- 911 4S PDK - 12.59s @ 112.96mph
- 911 S PDK - 12.39s @ 116.59mph

[footie]

This has been discussed countless times but if driving pleasure is number one on your list and you can't afford a GT3 then the next best thing is a Cayman S. The M3 is brilliant but it's not quite at the level that the Cayman is.

[drivendriver]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

2009 Cayman S win's worlds best drivers car

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p..._cayman_s.html

The M3 wasn't among the contenders, so it doesn't count .

[consolidated]

Originally Posted by GatorBlue371

2009 Cayman S win's worlds best drivers car

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p..._cayman_s.html

Good link! CS is indeed a very satisfying drive. Porsche can barely give cars away at the moment (sales -51% in July), good time to take one out for a test thrashing.

[graider]

i hope porsche can't sell and provide massive discount across the line up. we all benefit. lol

[dawheat]

Originally Posted by drivendriver

The M3 wasn't among the contenders, so it doesn't count .

I think the M3 was in last year's roundup that the R8 won. So they brought back the winner, but not the runner ups.

[mixja]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Great numbers there. the new 911 S' is a f*cking beast and a half. Cayman S is a beast in its own right considering its only got 320 hp.

Yep - PDK/DCT makes a good 0.2s difference (note I used 0.3s for manual shift time and 0.03s for DCT/PDK shift time)....

[drivendriver]

Originally Posted by shift@red

M3 couldnt/wouldnt have beaten it anyway.

I was surprised that nobody had bitten yet .

Still, I have to question the choice of cars. Who really believed that the Camaro and the Shelby (or the 135, for that matter) would win that contest? If the goal really was to find the best driver's cars, why not include the M3 and more radical cars like the Ariel Atom (I'm pretty sure it is street legal in all 50 states) or the Exige 240? Even before reading the article, I could have told you that the Miata, the R8 and the Cayman would be in the top 5. The main surprise for me was the 370Z's 7th place. That car usually gets very good reviews.

As for the Cayman S being the best driver's car, I can believe it. I wasn't bowled over when I tried one, but it was a short test drive, and if Randy Pobst says it's great, I'm willing to believe it is.

What annoys me is people who claim they have the best handling car in the world but can't drive it past 60% of its potential. I'm not aiming for anybody in this forum, mind you. Last week-end at the track, before getting on the track, a couple of Cayman drivers explained to me that their cars are true sports cars, while mine is more of a Gran Turismo. Fine; if they wan't to call the M3 a GT, I don't have a problem with that. I've reached that age where you start enjoying GT's. That's one of the reasons why I traded in my Elise. and I must admit I would never replace the M3's Novillo seats with Recaros. The problem is, once on the track, the true sports car owners couldn't keep up. If you're going to claim that you have the best car in the world, at least you should be faster than people who drive mere GT's. Otherwise, you probably don't deserve the best car in the world.

The truth is, for most us, it's not whether we drive the best or second best car in the world that determines how quick we are. It's our driving skills or lack thereof.

Having said that, i wouldn't mind having a Cayman S as a second car . The PCA people in the area are generally very nice, and I have a feeling that sooner or later they'll make me buy a Porsche.

[TLud]

Originally Posted by drivendriver

I was surprised that nobody had bitten yet .

Still, I have to question the choice of cars. Who really believed that the Camaro and the Shelby (or the 135, for that matter) would win that contest? If the goal really was to find the best driver's cars, why not include the M3 and more radical cars like the Ariel Atom (I'm pretty sure it is street legal in all 50 states) or the Exige 240? Even before reading the article, I could have told you that the Miata, the R8 and the Cayman would be in the top 5. The main surprise for me was the 370Z's 7th place. That car usually gets very good reviews.

As for the Cayman S being the best driver's car, I can believe it. I wasn't bowled over when I tried one, but it was a short test drive, and if Randy Pobst says it's great, I'm willing to believe it is.

What annoys me is people who claim they have the best handling car in the world but can't drive it past 60% of its potential. I'm not aiming for anybody in this forum, mind you. Last week-end at the track, before getting on the track, a couple of Cayman drivers explained to me that their cars are true sports cars, while mine is more of a Gran Turismo. Fine; if they wan't to call the M3 a GT, I don't have a problem with that. I've reached that age where you start enjoying GT's. That's one of the reasons why I traded in my Elise. and I must admit I would never replace the M3's Novillo seats with Recaros. The problem is, once on the track, the true sports car owners couldn't keep up. If you're going to claim that you have the best car in the world, at least you should be faster than people who drive mere GT's. Otherwise, you probably don't deserve the best car in the world.

The truth is, for most us, it's not whether we drive the best or second best car in the world that determines how quick we are. It's our driving skills or lack thereof.

Having said that, i wouldn't mind having a Cayman S as a second car . The PCA people in the area are generally very nice, and I have a feeling that sooner or later they'll make me buy a Porsche.

Awesome post! I came to the same conclusion that I wanted the luxuries that the M3 offers, but the Cayman S would make a great second car (currently no space in my garage/driveway).

The Cayman S really snuck up on me during the several cumulative hours I test drove it. In the beginning, I wasn't particularly wowed. The acceleration is nothing spectacular, the redline is relatively low (bumped it several times when driving the CS after the M3), and the car can be thrown around corners without any complaint or fanfare. Then you start realizing how good of a driver it is making you look like and how easy the car makes everything you throw at it seem. You start noticing how precise the shifter is. You start realizing how much you like hearing the glorious sound of the engine right behind your head. The car starts to feel like a well-fitting glove, an extension of you. You can feel every bit of the road beneath you -- but not in a harsh, grating sort of way -- and the car responds almost telepathically to your inputs.

[Don Pauleone]

Caymans r for girls and lil kids... u should get cayman s

[urbo73]

The only reason I have my M3 is because I need the space that a sedan offers (coupe too, but I needed 4 doors), and the M3 is the best sedan/coupe out there in terms of sporty balance and luxury/space. Having driven and owned several Porsches (including a Cayman S), to me at least, there is no comparison. I would get ANY Porsche (if I didn't have a kid now that needs a large seat) over any M3 variant. Having learned on and raced in FF SCCA, I prefer light cars (front light too), and M3 is simply too heavy for me. The feel of a front engine interferes with steering feel. Its gearbox is horrible compared to the Cayman's/911. So is the clutch and brake feel. Steering as well. M3 is a compromise by design - but for a compromise it's the best sedan out there IMO. And it's why I got it for now as I need it. A Cayman/911 isn't a compromise by design. And once my M3 lease is up in 1.5 years, I'll be back in a 911 (Cayman possibly).

Also while the Cayman is fantastic, I'm not going to dismiss the C2S. If you know how to drive a 911, you'll be faster in the C2S than in a Cayman S. The Cayman S is easier to drive, and the M3 even easier. The 911 takes some skill to drive fast. The Cayman is NOT a poor-man's 911 and the 911's engine and layout is proven and fine if you know how to use it to your advantage going into and out of turns...People talk a lot, but I'm not so sure about driving skills.

To each his own. Horses for courses..

[griff]

I have owned both these cars and bought both without even driving them.After reading every magazine report on the cayman s i thought someone must be right.Soi flew to Edinborough and drove one back.The first few miles back i wondered what i had done as they are useless below 4k.After a few more miles i was very pleased with the purchase.I went to the the nurburgring twice in the car,once with standard suspension and once with fully adjustable kw suspension.My friend at the time had a bmw csl and had done 5 24 hour races there and also done some instruction there.The csl was in a different league than my cayman even with road tyres and even when i put the kw suspension on the bmw was in a different league.

After this i decided to change to a new m3 which i have owned for 4 weeks and have just returned from the ring and to say im impressed with the car is an understatement.The performance with road tyres not cups was amazing the only thing that was crap were the brakes but that is in hand.Why bmw put crap brakes on its performance models is a mystery especially when they are tested at the ring.Mine lasted 1 and a half laps before my discs warped.

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Great numbers there. the new 911 S' is a f*cking beast and a half. Cayman S is a beast in its own right considering its only got 320 hp.

+1

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by griff

After this i decided to change to a new m3 which i have owned for 4 weeks and have just returned from the ring and to say im impressed with the car is an understatement.The performance with road tyres not cups was amazing the only thing that was crap were the brakes but that is in hand.Why bmw put crap brakes on its performance models is a mystery especially when they are tested at the ring.Mine lasted 1 and a half laps before my discs warped.

First of all, the brakes on the stock M3 are just fine. Street pads for a street car. What doesn't make sense?

I've read a lot of complaints about fading, and while track pads will cure that issue, if one knows how to brake properly, even the stock pads should be fine for 2-3 laps then cool down. Most people don't know how to brake properly from my experience. They either brake too soon or way too much - or both. And that WILL use up the pads a LOT quicker. Also having DSC/MDM on will work the brakes too. Bottom line: You should NOT have warped rotors after 1.5 laps. That's just bad driving IMO. Or you may think they are warped, when they just may have deposits on them. One or the other. In that case, either get track pads or improve braking technique. Don't complain about bad brakes...

But in any case, the M3 is a STREET car. It's NOT a race car or a track car. People need to cut through BMW's marketing BS and realize this. But as a STREET car, it can be amazingly good for what it is. You just need to know how to extract the most from it.

[drivendriver]

Originally Posted by urbo73

First of all, the brakes on the stock M3 are just fine. Street pads for a street car. What doesn't make sense?

I've read a lot of complaints about fading, and while track pads will cure that issue, if one knows how to brake properly, even the stock pads should be fine for 2-3 laps then cool down. Most people don't know how to brake properly from my experience. They either brake too soon or way too much - or both. And that WILL use up the pads a LOT quicker. Also having DSC/MDM on will work the brakes too. Bottom line: You should NOT have warped rotors after 1.5 laps. That's just bad driving IMO. Or you may think they are warped, when they just may have deposits on them. One or the other. In that case, either get track pads or improve braking technique. Don't complain about bad brakes...

Many good points in your post, but when he says "the ring", he may actually mean the Nordschleife.

Having said that, I read many posts about fading before taking my M3 to the track for the first time, and that had me worried. Actually, I only experienced serious fading once over the course of 10 20-min sessions. I slowed down for a couple of laps, and the brakes went back to normal.

Originally Posted by urbo73

But in any case, the M3 is a STREET car. It's NOT a race car or a track car. People need to cut through BMW's marketing BS and realize this. But as a STREET car, it can be amazingly good for what it is. You just need to know how to extract the most from it.

I agree. People tend to forget that the M3 performs outstandingly in braking distance tests, and in the street or on the highway, that's what matters.

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by FattyK

Wat do u all think. M3 DCT vs cayman S tiptronic? I think in terms of speed M3 wins hands down. Wat about overall driving experience? btw, I don't plan to track. thanks

M3 handsdown