but why?

tmoney135 · 02-09-2011, 05:13 PM

I was driving to school today and i was wondering something.....why does bmw have to take away the V8 from the m3? surely if ford and chevy can have 400+ HP v8's with 25+ mpg highway then bmw should too right? im sure the engineers at bmw are smarter than the engineers in america lol..but seriously why though?

Doctor J · 02-09-2011, 05:20 PM

bean counters

Brosef · 02-09-2011, 05:27 PM

there are a variety of reasons. cost, optics / PR (don't want to be associated with the gas-guzzling V8 stigma, inappropriate as it may be), to name just a few.

with re: to fuel efficiency, you have to recognize that fuel efficiency targets (i.e. CAFE standards) increase every year, so it's a moving target that BMW is trying to beat. put another way, they could get away with a V8 for the next couple years, but they would eventually need to switch to a smaller engine + turbo setup down the road.

T.J. · 02-09-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoney135

im sure the engineers at bmw are smarter than the engineers in america lol..

I dunno, you watch that superbowl commercial where GM teamed with NASA to make some kind of robot (R2) who can pick superbowl winning MVP's?

http://robonaut.jsc.nasa.gov/default.asp

kscarrol · 02-09-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brosef

there are a variety of reasons. cost, optics / PR (don't want to be associated with the gas-guzzling V8 stigma, inappropriate as it may be), to name just a few.

with re: to fuel efficiency, you have to recognize that fuel efficiency targets (i.e. CAFE standards) increase every year, so it's a moving target that BMW is trying to beat. put another way, they could get away with a V8 for the next couple years, but they would eventually need to switch to a smaller engine + turbo setup down the road.

And to follow up on the CAFE standards, Ford has a MUCH broader line-up of small, fuel efficient vehicles that pull up the corporate average. Ford sells a lot of Fiestas and Fusions for each V8 Mustang GT they sell...

RandyB · 02-09-2011, 06:12 PM

I wish there was a way for them to just turbocharge their entire line up and leave the M cars all N/A. RIP S65B40 after next year!

Erhan · 02-09-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kscarrol

And to follow up on the CAFE standards, Ford has a MUCH broader line-up of small, fuel efficient vehicles that pull up the corporate average. Ford sells a lot of Fiestas and Fusions for each V8 Mustang GT they sell...

No one is stopping BMW to bring their small cars here. But they insist on X5 M, X6M etc.

Erhan · 02-09-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyB

I wish there was a way for them to just turbocharge their entire line up and leave the M cars all N/A. RIP S65B40 after next year!

If BMW was honest about being green, they could get away with direct injection for now, and supercharger for later.

kscarrol · 02-09-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erhanh

No one is stopping BMW to bring their small cars here. But they insist on X5 M, X6M etc.

True but to most Americans, BMW is not about a 318 or 520. They bring what sells here...

emthreeboy · 02-10-2011, 11:38 AM

Pretty sure the next M3 will be niiiice, but theres something about a high reving NA M3!

listerone · 02-10-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmoney135

I was driving to school today and i was wondering something.....why does bmw have to take away the V8 from the m3?

The EPA? CAFE requirements? All of the above?

M3Fool · 02-10-2011, 02:07 PM

Its all good..... if this shit keeps heating up in the Middle East we will see 6-7 dollar a gallon gas prices by the summer and we all be riding bikes and skateboards anyway.

Serious · 02-10-2011, 02:12 PM

v8's never belonged in an m3 anyways.

radiantm3 · 02-10-2011, 02:13 PM

Don't forget ford has cars that get 40-50 MPG (and probably sell a lot more of those) to balance out their mustang. America is one of BMW's largest markets and they have only 2 diesels selling here and only one of them gets decent gas mileage.

Gkap · 02-10-2011, 02:16 PM

going green.

Erhan · 02-10-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious

v8's never belonged in an m3 anyways.

Why is that?

zamm3k · 02-10-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erhanh

Why is that?

Well, I'm gonna have a go at it and say that the original M3 was a nimble, agile car with "decent" power. It was a lot more un-refined than the M3 now. Then again, times change, and BMW has gotten refined and heavier as the years progress, so a V8 in an M3 isn't inappropriate per se, but they could have gone back to nimble and agile. The problem is, a large group of people that buy M3s aren't car enthusiast.

The area I live in is full of M3s, and quite honestly, 4/10 are young women driving them, and the remaining 6/10 are a mix between older/middle/young men. I have a couple of friends that bought the M3 just because it's the top of the line 3 series. They have no idea whether its a 4.0 or 5.0. They don't really care whether the power button is on or off, as long as it drives. So that kind of tells you why BMW has had the luxury to someone leave behind its roots of agile, NA, nimble cars.

Erhan · 02-10-2011, 02:52 PM

Well power doesn't hurt anyone. Sure, it would be nicer to have a lighter, smaller, more nimble E9x M3, but I'd still want the V8 in it

Also, the engine has nothing to do with why the M3 is bigger and heavier. This car is based on regular 3 series. It is not all that special from that point of view. At the end, it gives more power than S54, and it is lighter. I also think in terms of engine layout (shape) V8 is better than I6, which is too long.

Serious · 02-10-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erhanh

Why is that?

because BMW and M made their name with straight 6's.

The v8 is a fine engineering solution and a great engine, but it doesn't belong on an m3... in the same way 4 doors don't really belong on an M3. (sorry sedan owners, has nothing to do with the car... just heritage & tradition)

emthreeboy · 02-10-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious

because BMW and M made their name with straight 6's.

The v8 is a fine engineering solution and a great engine, but it doesn't belong on an m3... in the same way 4 doors don't really belong on an M3. (sorry sedan owners, has nothing to do with the car... just heritage & tradition)

You have a better idea for what should had been put in the e9x m3, to keep up with all the other current high-end models? And please don't say a turboed 6

.

Serious · 02-10-2011, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emthreeboy

You have a better idea for what should had been put in the e9x m3, to keep up with all the other current high-end models? And please don't say a turboed 6

.

Back in the day the m3 defined what everyone else did, there was no such thing as an m3 that had to "keep up" with current high end models.

The V8 was a necessary engineering solution to a problem of a larger heavier chassis.

OC3 · 02-10-2011, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serious

because BMW and M made their name with straight 6's.

The v8 is a fine engineering solution and a great engine, but it doesn't belong on an m3... in the same way 4 doors don't really belong on an M3. (sorry sedan owners, has nothing to do with the car... just heritage & tradition)

Perhaps you're not going back far enough in the M3 legacy. Look at E30 M3's w/ 4-banger & 4-doors.

02-09-2011, 05:13 PM	#1
tmoney135 New Member 1 Rep 15 Posts Drives: ford svt Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: US iTrader: (0)	but why? I was driving to school today and i was wondering something.....why does bmw have to take away the V8 from the m3? surely if ford and chevy can have 400+ HP v8's with 25+ mpg highway then bmw should too right? im sure the engineers at bmw are smarter than the engineers in america lol..but seriously why though?
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02-09-2011, 05:20 PM	#2
Doctor J Captain 33 Rep 741 Posts Drives: 2010 E93 M3 DCT Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Vancouver BC iTrader: (0)	bean counters __________________ 2010 BMW M3 vert with DCT & Akra (sold) 2012 Porsche 911 Turbo S
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02-09-2011, 05:27 PM	#3
Brosef Brigadier General 876 Rep 3,450 Posts Drives: F90 M5 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago iTrader: (4)	there are a variety of reasons. cost, optics / PR (don't want to be associated with the gas-guzzling V8 stigma, inappropriate as it may be), to name just a few. with re: to fuel efficiency, you have to recognize that fuel efficiency targets (i.e. CAFE standards) increase every year, so it's a moving target that BMW is trying to beat. put another way, they could get away with a V8 for the next couple years, but they would eventually need to switch to a smaller engine + turbo setup down the road.
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02-09-2011, 06:12 PM	#6
RandyB Lieutenant Colonel 20 Rep 1,504 Posts Drives: '03 330i, '09 M3 Coupe Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Texas iTrader: (0)	I wish there was a way for them to just turbocharge their entire line up and leave the M cars all N/A. RIP S65B40 after next year! __________________ '09 E92 M3 6MT \| Alpine White \| Black Leather \| EDC \| CL Trim \| 19s '03 E46 330i 6MT \| Electric Red \| Black Leather \| ZSP \| Bi-Xenons
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02-10-2011, 11:38 AM	#10
emthreeboy Captain 37 Rep 917 Posts Drives: E92 M3 & E46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: socal iTrader: (2)	Pretty sure the next M3 will be niiiice, but theres something about a high reving NA M3! __________________ -09 e92 SPACE GRAY/// m3 w/ m-dct! -06 E46 JET BLACK/// m3 6MT!
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02-10-2011, 02:07 PM	#12
M3Fool Loves FFDP 49 Rep 781 Posts Drives: 11 E90 M3 SOLD 11 5.0 'Stang Join Date: May 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Its all good..... if this shit keeps heating up in the Middle East we will see 6-7 dollar a gallon gas prices by the summer and we all be riding bikes and skateboards anyway. __________________ Glory may be fleeting, but mediocrity ensures anonymity...
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02-10-2011, 02:12 PM	#13
Serious 1M advocate 214 Rep 878 Posts Drives: 2018 S4. 2011 M3. 2012 S1000RR Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	v8's never belonged in an m3 anyways. __________________ 2012 BMW S1000RR 2011 BMW M3
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02-10-2011, 02:13 PM	#14
radiantm3 Apex Everything! 976 Rep 4,378 Posts Drives: 2007 Honda S2000, 2017 GT350 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cedar Park, TX iTrader: (6) Garage List 2011 E92 M3 [9.35] 2014 BMW i3 [10.00]	Don't forget ford has cars that get 40-50 MPG (and probably sell a lot more of those) to balance out their mustang. America is one of BMW's largest markets and they have only 2 diesels selling here and only one of them gets decent gas mileage. __________________ 2011 E92 M3(Sold). 2007 Honda S2000 (Track Car). 2016 Cayman GT4 (Sold). 2017 Shelby GT350 (AKA Crowd Killer). My pet project: https://stickershift.com
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02-10-2011, 02:16 PM	#15
Gkap BMF Movement 51 Rep 3,024 Posts Drives: Women Crazy Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: GTA iTrader: (1)	going green.
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02-10-2011, 02:52 PM	#18
Erhan Colonel 87 Rep 2,464 Posts Drives: Cooper S Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	Well power doesn't hurt anyone. Sure, it would be nicer to have a lighter, smaller, more nimble E9x M3, but I'd still want the V8 in it Also, the engine has nothing to do with why the M3 is bigger and heavier. This car is based on regular 3 series. It is not all that special from that point of view. At the end, it gives more power than S54, and it is lighter. I also think in terms of engine layout (shape) V8 is better than I6, which is too long. __________________ 2011 MINI Cooper S previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan
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