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      08-08-2009, 11:17 PM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
The GTR really turned the world upside down.
Not really.

If Nissan had factored in the true cost of ownership (warranty, service, customer experience etc.) the car would have come in at over $100k.

At which point...


But even for folks like me, with a budget well under the asking price - I absolutely feel no desire for the GT-R. It simply doesn't evoke any shred of passion, like the slower GT3 does. Or even the Z06. Maybe it's just me, but even a few years down the line when CPO cars will hit the market, they will never get my business.

An $80k+ car should give me the shivers and leave my nerves raw and excited. Not display a stupid graphic on the monitor...
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      08-09-2009, 12:04 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Not really.

If Nissan had factored in the true cost of ownership (warranty, service, customer experience etc.) the car would have come in at over $100k.

At which point...


But even for folks like me, with a budget well under the asking price - I absolutely feel no desire for the GT-R. It simply doesn't evoke any shred of passion, like the slower GT3 does. Or even the Z06. Maybe it's just me, but even a few years down the line when CPO cars will hit the market, they will never get my business.

An $80k+ car should give me the shivers and leave my nerves raw and excited. Not display a stupid graphic on the monitor...
Yup, I know where you're coming from. When I first bought my M3, the GTR's were just coming out. I thought that they were hideous and didn't "get" the excitement surrounding the car.

Wisdom now tells me that before I can truly be a critic about a topic, I must have first hand experience with it.

I drove one and now I own one.

Those "silly" graphics? Like oil pressure, engine oil temp, trans oil temp, trans oil pressure..... I know lots of folks that are envious of me for having that information at my fingertips.
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      08-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #333
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[/QUOTE]

An $80k+ car should give me the shivers and leave my nerves raw and excited. Not display a stupid graphic on the monitor...[/QUOTE]

Drive one and "the shivers and raw nerves" will be secondary to the feeling of being on Viagra for 3 days. shivers and raw nerves are a result of applied action, not something you get by sitting on a couch, flipping channels, and imagining graphics on a monitor.
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      08-09-2009, 12:10 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosety2009 View Post
Scott, I totally know what you mean. To my surprise I actually have gotten a fair bit of guys over 40+ making those same comments.

Two days ago ventured to downtown charlotte to mee the wife for lunch. They had a Nascar event going on, and to my surprise I pulled up next to one at a light. Driver gave me a thumbs up.. Here I am in a GTR next to a NASCAR, my face looked like this ===>
That's awesome! I never got that kind of positive attention in my M3. Most people would just look at my car out of corner of their eye. Maybe I'm just over analysing
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      08-09-2009, 12:40 AM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikewarlover View Post

Now go back to OP's topic if i have to pick a car to drive around everyday between the GTR and M3 i will probably pick the m3. M3 is much more comfortable and much less flashy(still very bling). For these of you who never rode in a GTR i can tell you the ride is pretty firm to a point of bit harsh. Which makes it tiring to drive around on a daily bases.

Obviously fact though, is if i am buying a weekand fun car it would definitely be a GTR.

However if i am buying a car for daily and can add C63 to the mix i would buy a C63. Well just as i did last week.


I don't get this criticism. I just drove my GTR over 3000 miles on a two week trip to the mountains and its was perfectly comfortable.
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      08-09-2009, 12:58 AM   #336
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Damn Scott look at this monster you have created! (16 pages strong of arguing!) We went for a cruise in his car and although our cars are fast that thing was bonkers! Truly an amazing car is all I have to say, the back seat was hilarious though. I think it is some kind of sick joke, lol! My new civic will beat you up though when I get it to replicate that picture you sent me, hahaha!

GTR ftw and M3 ftw /thread
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      08-09-2009, 07:35 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMJ_77 View Post
Damn Scott look at this monster you have created! (16 pages strong of arguing!) We went for a cruise in his car and although our cars are fast that thing was bonkers! Truly an amazing car is all I have to say, the back seat was hilarious though. I think it is some kind of sick joke, lol! My new civic will beat you up though when I get it to replicate that picture you sent me, hahaha!

GTR ftw and M3 ftw /thread
Maybe we should start a "vs" thread for our winter beaters!

RSX-S vs Civic Si..... who would win?

This is getting fun!
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      08-09-2009, 08:30 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
Wisdom now tells me that before I can truly be a critic about a topic, I must have first hand experience with it.
I'm not talking about criticising any of the driving aspects - I'm talking about desire. If I don't desire something, I'm not going to try it on for size...

If you're happy with the car that's perfectly ok with me - and I wish you many hours of motoring bliss.

Quote:
Those "silly" graphics? Like oil pressure, engine oil temp, trans oil temp, trans oil pressure..... I know lots of folks that are envious of me for having that information at my fingertips.
The M3 as you know displays the oil temp which is important mainly to know when you can step on it.

All the rest are completely irrelevant in a road car IMO - why would you need to know the oil pressure or tranny oil temp? Does it have a tendency to overheat so you must keep an eye on it? That could get pretty distracting...
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      08-09-2009, 09:12 AM   #339
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Ugh i would never buy a nissan. My parents since i was a kid have had nissans and kept on buying nissans until now.

The best way to know which car you want would be to DRIVE THEM. End of story.
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      08-09-2009, 09:22 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooManySilverBMWS! View Post
Ugh i would never buy a nissan. My parents since i was a kid have had nissans and kept on buying nissans until now.

The best way to know which car you want would be to DRIVE THEM. End of story.
Do your parents have a GTR? If not, I'm baffled by your statement.
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      08-09-2009, 09:39 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooManySilverBMWS! View Post
Ugh i would never buy a nissan. My parents since i was a kid have had nissans and kept on buying nissans until now.

The best way to know which car you want would be to DRIVE THEM. End of story.


Let's see: You have to actually drive a car in order to determine its worth - unless your parents drove it?

Fascinating. Four short sentences adding up to a psychiatric study.
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      08-09-2009, 01:08 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotyH View Post
Maybe we should start a "vs" thread for our winter beaters!

RSX-S vs Civic Si..... who would win?

This is getting fun!
You know you don't stand a chance. Once the I get a tin can exhaust on and some ground FX lights it's GAME OVA! I'll take the stereo out of your car though!

On another note about the nissan and parents comment, does that mean my kids won't like bimmer's because I drove an M3? That sucks, it's a great car
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      08-09-2009, 01:24 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooManySilverBMWS! View Post
Ugh i would never buy a nissan. My parents since i was a kid have had nissans and kept on buying nissans until now.

The best way to know which car you want would be to DRIVE THEM. End of story.
You don't make sense. Have you driven a GTR?
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      08-09-2009, 01:36 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I'm not talking about criticising any of the driving aspects - I'm talking about desire. If I don't desire something, I'm not going to try it on for size...

If you're happy with the car that's perfectly ok with me - and I wish you many hours of motoring bliss.



The M3 as you know displays the oil temp which is important mainly to know when you can step on it.

All the rest are completely irrelevant in a road car IMO - why would you need to know the oil pressure or tranny oil temp? Does it have a tendency to overheat so you must keep an eye on it? That could get pretty distracting...
With your mentality, i bet you are missing out a lot in life.

"All the rest are completely irrelevant in a road car IMO - why would you need to know the oil pressure or tranny oil temp? "

Why do you need a road car to go above 60miles/hour?
Why do you need a road car to have a v8?
why do you need automatic rain sensor wipers - surely you can turn them on by hand?
why do you need all that power in your M3 for, its just a road car?

Why am i bothering to even waste my time responding?
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      08-09-2009, 08:51 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker View Post
With your mentality, i bet you are missing out a lot in life.

"All the rest are completely irrelevant in a road car IMO - why would you need to know the oil pressure or tranny oil temp? "

Why do you need a road car to go above 60miles/hour?
Why do you need a road car to have a v8?
why do you need automatic rain sensor wipers - surely you can turn them on by hand?
why do you need all that power in your M3 for, its just a road car?

Why am i bothering to even waste my time responding?
To be fair if the oil pressure is dropping off you're already in trouble so a warning light will suffice there and as for tranny temp... Might be relevant with a dual clutch setup (never had one so I don't know) but not really with a manual box as once you've reached engine oil temp your pretty much good to go. I'm stunned by the amount of people that don't even look at the oil temp gauge in cars before hammering it. Probably why the moving redline was introduced on the M3 and old M5. Good idea I think.

As for the M3 while the oil temp gauge is good on the rev counter what the hell is the digital one in aid of?? The one with the OK on it when it's reached temp. It just sits there with a big empty bar until you've reached temp???? What the hell??? Could they not at least have had the bar move up to full or something? If no then why bother with the bar at all? Why not just put NOT OK in and change to OK when you're good to go??
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      08-09-2009, 10:19 PM   #346
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Quote:
Why do you need a road car to go above 60miles/hour?
Why do you need a road car to have a v8?
why do you need automatic rain sensor wipers - surely you can turn them on by hand?
why do you need all that power in your M3 for, its just a road car?
I want a fast car. I even occasionally drive it fast - check out my Euro Delivery thread for a perfect example of that.

I just don't need the Playstation graphics in it.

(And BTW, I don't give a rat's ass about the rain sensing wipers or the V8 configuration).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoreHead View Post
To be fair if the oil pressure is dropping off you're already in trouble so a warning light will suffice there and as for tranny temp... Might be relevant with a dual clutch setup (never had one so I don't know) but not really with a manual box as once you've reached engine oil temp your pretty much good to go.
That was my point, sadly missed by the other poster. The manufacturer should only include tranny oil pressure and temperature gauges if:
1. It's important to the operation of the car
2. The driver can monitor if effectively
3. The driver can do something with that information

Does this show lack of confidence or sufficient engineering from Nissan's part? I suppose it's possible, but my bet is that they just went for the gimmicky effect. No thanks.
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      08-10-2009, 12:42 AM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I want a fast car. I even occasionally drive it fast - check out my Euro Delivery thread for a perfect example of that.

I just don't need the Playstation graphics in it.

(And BTW, I don't give a rat's ass about the rain sensing wipers or the V8 configuration).



That was my point, sadly missed by the other poster. The manufacturer should only include tranny oil pressure and temperature gauges if:
1. It's important to the operation of the car
2. The driver can monitor if effectively
3. The driver can do something with that information

Does this show lack of confidence or sufficient engineering from Nissan's part? I suppose it's possible, but my bet is that they just went for the gimmicky effect. No thanks.


I don't really get your point. If you don't like monitoring the tranny temp turn off the gauge. There's lots of information that may or may not interest a person but if they want it its there. Its helpful especially if one tunes the vehicle (yes tranny temp monitoring is important).
I suppose all you need is a tach? Or can you tell by sound?
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      08-10-2009, 01:03 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
I want a fast car. I even occasionally drive it fast - check out my Euro Delivery thread for a perfect example of that.

I just don't need the Playstation graphics in it.

(And BTW, I don't give a rat's ass about the rain sensing wipers or the V8 configuration).



That was my point, sadly missed by the other poster. The manufacturer should only include tranny oil pressure and temperature gauges if:
1. It's important to the operation of the car
2. The driver can monitor if effectively
3. The driver can do something with that information

Does this show lack of confidence or sufficient engineering from Nissan's part? I suppose it's possible, but my bet is that they just went for the gimmicky effect. No thanks.
So you want a fast car because you like to drive fast - on the street, but you don't "give a rats arse" about the configuration of the engine or the temperature of the transmission (for DCT cars). In other words, you don't really care how the car is fast or why it is fast. You just want it to be fast.

Are you one of those people who just hops in to their cars, start the engine and mash the throttle before letting it warm up? Or someone who never checks their engine oil level?
And when their car suddenly breaks down, they wonder why....
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      08-10-2009, 06:59 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker View Post
So you want a fast car because you like to drive fast - on the street, but you don't "give a rats arse" about the configuration of the engine or the temperature of the transmission (for DCT cars). In other words, you don't really care how the car is fast or why it is fast. You just want it to be fast.
Pretty much. I'd be perfectly ok with an inline 6, V6, V8, turbos, superchargers whatever.

All that matters is the end result.

Quote:
Are you one of those people who just hops in to their cars, start the engine and mash the throttle before letting it warm up? Or someone who never checks their engine oil level?
Nope - whatever gave you that idea?

For example, the M3 implementation of "don't mash that throttle on a cold engine" is supremely elegant and minimalist - a variable redline. In this context I'm not at all sure if the oil temp gauge is truly useful... especially as once at operating temps it never moves much (as opposed to my previous 335i, where it was absolutely vital).

As for oil level, I do fine with a dipstick or its electronic version - because I only need to check it periodically. I don't need to be reminded every second. Just not sure why you brought it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 997GT3 View Post
I suppose all you need is a tach? Or can you tell by sound?
In a 997 GT3 I probably could tell by sound. In the M3 I can certainly tell when driving in normal conditions - not sure if I was wearing a helmet (time will tell).

One thing for sure - when driving fast on a track, the less dials/gauges you need to look at, the better.


My ideal gauge configuration would be a blank panel. If the ECU monitors different things and wants to let me know about a problem, it should flash a warning, or even tell me in words (text to speech). In other words, only notify me when there's a problem, don't display these things all the time.
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      08-10-2009, 11:16 AM   #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post

My ideal gauge configuration would be a blank panel. If the ECU monitors different things and wants to let me know about a problem, it should flash a warning, or even tell me in words (text to speech). In other words, only notify me when there's a problem, don't display these things all the time.
There is a flaw in your argument. By the time the car lets you know that there is a problem - it's too late.

"it should flash a warning, or even tell me in words (text to speech)" - Tell you in words? Seems pretty ricey, gimmicky and playstation like doesn't it? Even the GTR doesn't have that feature..

So by your logic, you wouldn't need to have a tach. All you need is a red light to go on to tell you that you've redline the car.
You probably don't need to have a speedometer also - gets distracting when you are constantly looking at it when trying to obey the speed limit. Just have the car tell you your speed by speech at certain intervals.
You definitely don't need sat nav. Why, with all those playstation like 3D street pictures and turn by turn voice guidance - what a distraction. Just use the good old tried and trusted street map.
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      08-10-2009, 11:32 AM   #351
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Ok. The post was so big I didn't get to see the start of this argument.
My guess is that ADC was originally putting down the playstation designed screen on the GTR???

If that's the case then I see where all this is going. To be honest I do think that most of it is unnecessary alright but as it's software it's not like it's adding to the weight of the car so why not give you all the options they can? If you don't like some of it the turn to another screen.

It is mostly a gimmick IMHO but like I say why not? It started with the R34 V-Spec that had the little sceen with some stuff. This is just a progression of that. Most of it is purely pub bragging material but if you do track days I imagine more of it is useful.

If it was adding weight I can see an argument against having it but it's not so what the hell. Personally I wouldn't have gone with the GranTourismo style graphics but that's just me and it wouldn't put me off buying one.

Now stop fighting or I'll be over to clip your ears.
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      08-10-2009, 11:42 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Pretty much. I'd be perfectly ok with an inline 6, V6, V8, turbos, superchargers whatever.

All that matters is the end result.

You don't care if it's V6, straight 6, turbo, four cylinder etc, so long as it's fast then that is all that matters. The GTR is fast, so shouldn't it fit your criteria?
Don't tell me that something as petty as the "playstation like" screen (which can be turned off), makes it not worth desiring?

Hang on a minute - doesn't the M3 have that very playstation like idrive knob? Jeeeez, what do you know, an M3 owner with idrive bagging a GTR for being "gimmicky and playstation like" That's like Parris Hilton calling Sienna Miller a slut....
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