Performance Friction Direct Drive rotors

ScheerSpeed · 03-01-2010, 10:27 AM

so im finally buying the brake parts for my upcoming track day march 20th... i just picked up a set of 18" wheels with some slightly use Nitto NT-01 tires. now its time to do the brakes.

BBK is out of the question because i cant use 18" wheels and too much $!

so i was going to order the Performance Friction 01 race pads, motul 600 fluid, and SS lines... do you guys think its worth it to get the direct drive rotors as well? they are only dimpled... so i dont see how they can cool any better than the OEM ones... i also dont want to warp the oem ones because i will switch them back to use on the street. im afraid with the higher grip from the tires and a better pad that i might warp, if not damage the stock rotors...

any input? thanks...

LiM3y · 03-01-2010, 11:58 AM

The warping comes from the manner heat is dissipated from the rotor. Uneven cooling will cause warping. Having grippier brakes will not 'twist' the rotor and warp it. The OEM rotors should be just fine, especially since you are asking the question, you are a new to tracking (like me-ish), so you will unlikely be close to those kinds conditions as well. The OEM brake pads can glaze the rotors as they are designed for day-to-day street use rather than track use. When the rotor get glazed, of gets a sensation/vibration similar to warped rotors but id actually due to uneven coating of brake residue. I learnt this last year.

When you are at the track day, make sure you catch up to an experienced M3 driver(s)...you will get all sorts of tips and info that helps you get the best out of your car. They've been there and love to share info.

ScheerSpeed · 03-01-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiM3y

The warping comes from the manner heat is dissipated from the rotor. Uneven cooling will cause warping. Having grippier brakes will not 'twist' the rotor and warp it. The OEM rotors should be just fine, especially since you are asking the question, you are a new to tracking (like me-ish), so you will unlikely be close to those kinds conditions as well. The OEM brake pads can glaze the rotors as they are designed for day-to-day street use rather than track use. When the rotor get glazed, of gets a sensation/vibration similar to warped rotors but id actually due to uneven coating of brake residue. I learnt this last year.

When you are at the track day, make sure you catch up to an experienced M3 driver(s)...you will get all sorts of tips and info that helps you get the best out of your car. They've been there and love to share info.

thanks for the info. actually ive been racing formula cars and kartsfor 9 years

its just ive never really driven many street cars on track... only the formula renault, and it's a completely different ball game because the M3 weighs about 3 or so formula renault's lol

LiM3y · 03-01-2010, 01:47 PM

Cool beans! Enjoy!

Bottom line - I think the rotors/track pads will be fine based on what's posted here. See the sticky at the top of the sub-forum - lots of useful stuff.

RickyBobby · 03-01-2010, 01:50 PM

No problems here with with the oem rotors along with race pads, ss lines and motul. They'll show stress cracks fairly quickly but still work and don't 'warp'. I had some juddering issues that a few hard stops took care of.
I'll start buying PFC rotors once my warranty runs out.

Jaypod · 03-01-2010, 05:18 PM

If I was not going to go the BBK route, I would order the Performance Friction E9X M3 Stage 1 Brake Package from Bimmerworld. I assume you probably are looking at this. IMO dimpled or slotted rotors are the way to go on our cars for track purposes, especially on the front. You could just use your front rotors until they are worn or crack, then install the PF ones later (although I wouldnt bother).

03SG///M3 · 03-02-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaypod

If I was not going to go the BBK route, I would order the Performance Friction E9X M3 Stage 1 Brake Package from Bimmerworld. I assume you probably are looking at this. IMO dimpled or slotted rotors are the way to go on our cars for track purposes, especially on the front. You could just use your front rotors until they are worn or crack, then install the PF ones later (although I wouldnt bother).

I agree. I am hoping to get the Stage 1 brake package from bimmerworld too. I think its worth it to change the rotors now rather than waiting to change them.

ScheerSpeed · 03-03-2010, 08:56 PM

whats different with dimpled vs. drilled?

also how about wear on the rotors? if i use the PF01 pads with the OEM rotors, are they going to eat the rotors? thus having to put new rotors after a few track days?

i also ordered all the parts to make DIY brake ducts, however i am worried about debris getting in the ducting and somehow possibly causing a brake failure? maybe putting a mesh screen in front of the duct inlet could solve this?

BRDHNTR · 03-04-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

whats different with dimpled vs. drilled?

also how about wear on the rotors? if i use the PF01 pads with the OEM rotors, are they going to eat the rotors? thus having to put new rotors after a few track days?

i also ordered all the parts to make DIY brake ducts, however i am worried about debris getting in the ducting and somehow possibly causing a brake failure? maybe putting a mesh screen in front of the duct inlet could solve this?

Drilled is not good for the track because the heat can cause cracking. Drilled is what you want for the street as it disappates heat the best. The dimples will increase surface area and allow better cooling (not as well as the drilled, but we already said you don't want that) than a plain rotor. Besides, if you have a soft pad at the track w/ drilled rotors, you will plug the holes with pad material. I certainly did with the OEM brakes.

If I was to track my E92 this year, I would buy the Performance Friction E9X M3 Stage 1 Brake Package from Bimmerworld. I ran Carbotech XP10's last year at 3 events, and my rotors are shot eventhough I have plenty of pad material on both my OEM pads and the Carbotech's.

As for the Ducts I don't really know much about debris getting through and hurting the brakes. I was reading an article in Grassroots Motorsport magazine last month about a Time Attack Subaru STi (F'ing ridiculous car). With ducts he still couldn't cool the brakes down enough (in fact heat was killing everything in his car, so much so his overall time was 8th and he did it in Limp Mode.), so what he did was put the Cool Shirt blowers in the brake ducts. He said that he couldn't believe how well that worked. Apparently it made a huge difference.

Jaypod · 03-04-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRDHNTR

Drilled is not good for the track because the heat can cause cracking. Drilled is what you want for the street as it disappates heat the best. The dimples will increase surface area and allow better cooling (not as well as the drilled, but we already said you don't want that) than a plain rotor. Besides, if you have a soft pad at the track w/ drilled rotors, you will plug the holes with pad material. I certainly did with the OEM brakes.

Actually I am not so sure about that, If I am not mistaken more surface area, slotted or dimpled, will dissipate better. My understanding is that drilled rotors were used for expelling the gases created by earlier manufacturing methods (ie. Asbestos brakes) and is really no longer a concern, more for aesthetics than anything else.

sc_tr0jan_m3 · 03-04-2010, 05:42 PM

PFC pads and oem rotors should be good enough. if you're able to spot the cash for the PFC rotors as well, then by all means go for it. they're a great combo. i'd double check the thickness of your oem rotor before you head out to make sure you got enough life in them.

i'm looking to upgrade to PFC later this season. i've heard nothing but good things about them.

JustAnothaM4 · 03-10-2010, 10:01 AM

The PFC Direct Drive rotors are official 2pc floating rotors. The oem rotor on the e92/e46 zcp coupe are 1pc floating rotor. The PFC rotors are lighter and you only have to replace the rotor ring like you would on a bbk setup. Being the price point is rather high for the PFC rotors, I would wait until your oem rotors are done to replace them. With that said, the PFC rotors last a LONGGGGG time.

Here is a pic of my PFC rear rotors on my e46 m3 coupe. I had a stoptech BBK in the front!

The only issue I have with these rear rotors is that when the pad gets low, the anti-rattle clip will hit the bolts that attach the center to the rotor ring. You can see in the below pic how close that anti-rattle clip is to the hardware.

ScheerSpeed · 03-23-2010, 09:15 AM

time to get PF rotors... i warped my rotors BAD at the track... and i did a cool down lap after every session...

Dascamel · 03-23-2010, 09:43 AM

May need brake cooling ducts instead.

Fen335i · 03-23-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

time to get PF rotors... i warped my rotors BAD at the track... and i did a cool down lap after every session...

Sorry to hear that ScheerSpeed. What was your brake setup? Did you use PF race pads (01) and high perf racing brake fluid?

How long were you on the track at any given time?

66BM · 03-23-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

time to get PF rotors... i warped my rotors BAD at the track... and i did a cool down lap after every session...

How did you warp your rotors at the track? I'm using the stock setup on my car, tracked it at 10 or so events last year and autox'd it all year long. Just had my tech inspection done yesterday for the upcoming season and the only thing needed to be done, was to change the pads. Not sure how you warped the rotors, but you may want to adjust your braking habits. Are you "Hard but smooth" on the brakes for shorter periods of time or are you riding the brakes? That makes a huge difference. Not saying you don't know what you're doing, so don't take it that way.

RickyBobby · 03-23-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScheerSpeed

time to get PF rotors... i warped my rotors BAD at the track... and i did a cool down lap after every session...

I'd almost guarentee that your rotors are not warped but instead just have some heavy deposits from those track pads. I had this after my 1st track day also. The solution is to run the race pads on the street for a
couple of weeks to clean up the rotors. If that alone doesn't work, find a safe place to do some hard 100 - 0 stops.

ScheerSpeed · 03-23-2010, 04:09 PM

ricky bobby- ill have to try that. when i was on track (30 minute sessions) the last two sessions i was getting a VERY BAD vibration in the wheel under braking... i figured its warped rotors... i put the stock pads back in and it still does it... i was pushing the car really hard... i even melted the piston seals in the caliper... i need to replace those too. the paint on the rear calipers bubbled off. i had PF 01 compound on all 4 corners with motul 600 fluid and Stoptech SS lines

ScheerSpeed · 03-23-2010, 04:12 PM

i guess maybe it is just hte rotors have some build up? i almost killed a brand new set of PF 01 front pads, and the rears are at about 50%. i was pushing the car HARD for 30 minute sessions... the brakes didnt really fade except in turn 2 at Homestead Speedway. (braking from 120-50). however the last 2 sessions i was getting a very heavy vibration under braking and it was getting progressively worse, so i figured i had warped the rotors... i even melted the piston seals and made the paint on the rear calipers bubble and fall off...

ScheerSpeed · 03-23-2010, 04:22 PM

ricky bobby- im going to have to try that. i had about 5 30 minute sessions. i was driving the car HARD for about 25 of the 30 minutes than i would do a cool down lap and come in to the pits. i had the PF01 on all 4 corners and motul 600 fluid and stoptech SS lines. i pretty much killed the front pads, they probably have about 30% left in them... and the rears about 50%. the rears got so hot the paint bubbled off the calipers

and the seals on the pistons on all 4 corners cracked and melted...

ScheerSpeed · 03-23-2010, 04:22 PM

ricky bobby- im going to have to try that. i had about 5 30 minute sessions. i was driving the car HARD for about 25 of the 30 minutes than i would do a cool down lap and come in to the pits. i had the PF01 on all 4 corners and motul 600 fluid and stoptech SS lines. i pretty much killed the front pads, they probably have about 30% left in them... and the rears about 50%. the rears got so hot the paint bubbled off the calipers

and the seals on the pistons on all 4 corners cracked and melted...

lucid · 03-23-2010, 05:20 PM

What I learned is that the stock setup is just fine with the modifications you mention, but if you are going to do back to back hot laps for 25 mins, you will run into problems (ask me how I know). You have to conserve the car a bit by not railing on it too hard lap after lap. It weighs too much and has power. Otherwise, you should look into cooling ducts and a BBK.

03-01-2010, 10:27 AM	#1
ScheerSpeed Major General 415 Rep 5,767 Posts Drives: '13 F30 Estoril M-Sport 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (14)	Performance Friction Direct Drive rotors so im finally buying the brake parts for my upcoming track day march 20th... i just picked up a set of 18" wheels with some slightly use Nitto NT-01 tires. now its time to do the brakes. BBK is out of the question because i cant use 18" wheels and too much $! so i was going to order the Performance Friction 01 race pads, motul 600 fluid, and SS lines... do you guys think its worth it to get the direct drive rotors as well? they are only dimpled... so i dont see how they can cool any better than the OEM ones... i also dont want to warp the oem ones because i will switch them back to use on the street. im afraid with the higher grip from the tires and a better pad that i might warp, if not damage the stock rotors... any input? thanks...
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03-01-2010, 11:58 AM	#2
LiM3y Major 70 Rep 1,339 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (5)	The warping comes from the manner heat is dissipated from the rotor. Uneven cooling will cause warping. Having grippier brakes will not 'twist' the rotor and warp it. The OEM rotors should be just fine, especially since you are asking the question, you are a new to tracking (like me-ish), so you will unlikely be close to those kinds conditions as well. The OEM brake pads can glaze the rotors as they are designed for day-to-day street use rather than track use. When the rotor get glazed, of gets a sensation/vibration similar to warped rotors but id actually due to uneven coating of brake residue. I learnt this last year. When you are at the track day, make sure you catch up to an experienced M3 driver(s)...you will get all sorts of tips and info that helps you get the best out of your car. They've been there and love to share info.
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03-01-2010, 01:47 PM	#4
LiM3y Major 70 Rep 1,339 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: CT iTrader: (5)	Cool beans! Enjoy! Bottom line - I think the rotors/track pads will be fine based on what's posted here. See the sticky at the top of the sub-forum - lots of useful stuff.
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03-01-2010, 01:50 PM	#5
RickyBobby Captain 108 Rep 697 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NorCal iTrader: (3)	No problems here with with the oem rotors along with race pads, ss lines and motul. They'll show stress cracks fairly quickly but still work and don't 'warp'. I had some juddering issues that a few hard stops took care of. I'll start buying PFC rotors once my warranty runs out.
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03-01-2010, 05:18 PM	#6
Jaypod Brigadier General 125 Rep 4,971 Posts Drives: Frozen M3, AM V8V, 991 GT3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Toronto iTrader: (7)	If I was not going to go the BBK route, I would order the Performance Friction E9X M3 Stage 1 Brake Package from Bimmerworld. I assume you probably are looking at this. IMO dimpled or slotted rotors are the way to go on our cars for track purposes, especially on the front. You could just use your front rotors until they are worn or crack, then install the PF ones later (although I wouldnt bother).
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03-03-2010, 08:56 PM	#8
ScheerSpeed Major General 415 Rep 5,767 Posts Drives: '13 F30 Estoril M-Sport 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (14)	whats different with dimpled vs. drilled? also how about wear on the rotors? if i use the PF01 pads with the OEM rotors, are they going to eat the rotors? thus having to put new rotors after a few track days? i also ordered all the parts to make DIY brake ducts, however i am worried about debris getting in the ducting and somehow possibly causing a brake failure? maybe putting a mesh screen in front of the duct inlet could solve this?
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03-04-2010, 05:42 PM	#11
sc_tr0jan_m3 Lieutenant Colonel 519 Rep 1,730 Posts Drives: 2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0)	PFC pads and oem rotors should be good enough. if you're able to spot the cash for the PFC rotors as well, then by all means go for it. they're a great combo. i'd double check the thickness of your oem rotor before you head out to make sure you got enough life in them. i'm looking to upgrade to PFC later this season. i've heard nothing but good things about them. __________________ 2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT \| :: Bone Stock :: 2004 Titanium Silver E46 M3 6 Speed \| :: Track Car ::
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03-10-2010, 10:01 AM	#12
JustAnothaM4 Major 884 Rep 1,262 Posts Drives: 2016 M4 GTS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cumming, GA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2016 BMW M4 GTS [0.00]	The PFC Direct Drive rotors are official 2pc floating rotors. The oem rotor on the e92/e46 zcp coupe are 1pc floating rotor. The PFC rotors are lighter and you only have to replace the rotor ring like you would on a bbk setup. Being the price point is rather high for the PFC rotors, I would wait until your oem rotors are done to replace them. With that said, the PFC rotors last a LONGGGGG time. Here is a pic of my PFC rear rotors on my e46 m3 coupe. I had a stoptech BBK in the front! The only issue I have with these rear rotors is that when the pad gets low, the anti-rattle clip will hit the bolts that attach the center to the rotor ring. You can see in the below pic how close that anti-rattle clip is to the hardware. __________________ 2016 M4 GTS Alpine White 2021 X5M Competition Marina Bay Blue Instagram: @JustAnothaM4
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03-23-2010, 09:15 AM	#13
ScheerSpeed Major General 415 Rep 5,767 Posts Drives: '13 F30 Estoril M-Sport 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (14)	time to get PF rotors... i warped my rotors BAD at the track... and i did a cool down lap after every session...
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03-23-2010, 09:43 AM	#14
Dascamel Lieutenant Colonel 48 Rep 1,664 Posts Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bakersfield, CA iTrader: (0)	May need brake cooling ducts instead. __________________ 2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim 2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options 2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
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03-23-2010, 04:09 PM	#18
ScheerSpeed Major General 415 Rep 5,767 Posts Drives: '13 F30 Estoril M-Sport 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (14)	ricky bobby- ill have to try that. when i was on track (30 minute sessions) the last two sessions i was getting a VERY BAD vibration in the wheel under braking... i figured its warped rotors... i put the stock pads back in and it still does it... i was pushing the car really hard... i even melted the piston seals in the caliper... i need to replace those too. the paint on the rear calipers bubbled off. i had PF 01 compound on all 4 corners with motul 600 fluid and Stoptech SS lines
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03-23-2010, 04:12 PM	#19
ScheerSpeed Major General 415 Rep 5,767 Posts Drives: '13 F30 Estoril M-Sport 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (14)	i guess maybe it is just hte rotors have some build up? i almost killed a brand new set of PF 01 front pads, and the rears are at about 50%. i was pushing the car HARD for 30 minute sessions... the brakes didnt really fade except in turn 2 at Homestead Speedway. (braking from 120-50). however the last 2 sessions i was getting a very heavy vibration under braking and it was getting progressively worse, so i figured i had warped the rotors... i even melted the piston seals and made the paint on the rear calipers bubble and fall off...
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03-23-2010, 04:22 PM	#20
ScheerSpeed Major General 415 Rep 5,767 Posts Drives: '13 F30 Estoril M-Sport 335i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (14)	ricky bobby- im going to have to try that. i had about 5 30 minute sessions. i was driving the car HARD for about 25 of the 30 minutes than i would do a cool down lap and come in to the pits. i had the PF01 on all 4 corners and motul 600 fluid and stoptech SS lines. i pretty much killed the front pads, they probably have about 30% left in them... and the rears about 50%. the rears got so hot the paint bubbled off the calipers and the seals on the pistons on all 4 corners cracked and melted...
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03-23-2010, 05:20 PM	#22
lucid Major General 374 Rep 8,033 Posts Drives: E30 M3; Expedition Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	What I learned is that the stock setup is just fine with the modifications you mention, but if you are going to do back to back hot laps for 25 mins, you will run into problems (ask me how I know). You have to conserve the car a bit by not railing on it too hard lap after lap. It weighs too much and has power. Otherwise, you should look into cooling ducts and a BBK. Last edited by lucid; 03-23-2010 at 08:12 PM..
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