Road and Track's new M3 article

[ihavedrivenanm1]

Originally Posted by John 070

Looks like they estimate it'll be 20k more than a 335...seems reasonable for what it is.

$20k for two more cylinders, some multi-color stitching, a bit of carbon fiber, and a half-second off of the 0-60 time is reasonable?

I have no doubt that BMW will sell a few but the previous model of $10K over the price of a top-of-the-line '3' was much more reasonable IMHO.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by fugginfazt

^ Yes, the new V8 is 30 lbs lighter than the S54

But keep in mind its also 30 lbs heavier than the N54.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

I agree with you completely. I mean suddenly everyone's trashing the 335's suspension like it's the same as a civic's. I want to hear exactly what UNBELIEVEABLE suspension mods the M3 has that it's so IMPOSSIBLE for the 335 to reach. Sway bars? Coilovers? Strut towers? Come on now, don't talk shit and not be able to back it up.

+1

People talk about an M car like its built by a mythical beast and employs alien technology BMW stole from area 51.

Its a factory tuner car. Its 25% very well engineered mods to the pedestrian 3 series and 75% very well researched advertising from the M marketing machine. And I agree with Skip also that there are much better track choices than an M. You could buy a used E90 325, spend 3 months gutting it to get the weight down and bolt on aftermarket suspension, brakes, wheels and you would lap M3s all day long on the track. You'll have no warranty and no flashy M badge but you will most certainly have a more capable car.

The defensiveness goes both ways - 335i drivers trying to justify their car, and future M owners trying to justify theirs. So all the talk about defensiveness is silly because its a wash IMHO. To me its certain there will eventually be 335i's out there trouncing the M3 for less money. Its just a matter of time.

[BigDog]

Originally Posted by bobbo

This thread is about the M3 and its performance. What I have seen is a lot of 335i owners justifying their purchase. No one cares. If you are happy with it then be merry it. It's in no one's business to talk about other people's finance either. Keep the thread on topic.

Does a 18-19 year old with no salary has a business driving a M3? Who cares. Are you going to say he's can't afford it?

here's a question for you....


how many 18-19 yr olds do you know with no salary and their own business?


yeah i thought so...

[canucklion]

if you want to cut down on people, at least learn to read properly

bobbo said "Does a 18-19 year old with no salary has a business driving a M3?"

he didn't say the 18-19 yr olds OWN businesses

Originally Posted by BigDog

here's a question for you....


how many 18-19 yr olds do you know with no salary and their own business?


yeah i thought so...

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci

it means high engine speeds genius. listen, you have a great car...but you don't need to go whore out every M3 thread and talk shit about it. you're over it. nobody cares.

Christ, I thought school wasn't out till June??

[Robert]

MMMM it will be a dime a dozen? There are already 3-4 16-19years old on this forum alone that owns a 335i and that's not counting the number of teenagers who own e46 m3 on e46fanatics and roadfly. Many parents are willing to shell out money to make their kids happy. I will not digress from the topic any further. It's done, you already made a @#$ of yourself. Too much ego too little ____

Originally Posted by BigDog

here's a question for you....


how many 18-19 yr olds do you know with no salary and their own business?


yeah i thought so...

[BigDog]

Originally Posted by canucklion

if you want to cut down on people, at least learn to read properly

bobbo said "Does a 18-19 year old with no salary has a business driving a M3?"

he didn't say the 18-19 yr olds OWN businesses

how bout learning some grammar?

[s4iscool]

Stop making an ass of yourself; we all know what that "BigDog" name really means now.

[canucklion]

hey e-thug, trying to be tough and cocky eh?

I copied bobbo's post verbatim, anyone with any common sense knew that when he wrote "Does a 18-19 year old with no salary has a business driving a M3?"

he meant "Does an 18-19 year old with no salary have any business driving a M3?"

Originally Posted by BigDog

how bout learning some grammar?

[Robert]

Originally Posted by fugginfazt

Someone convince me otherwise:

E92 335 fully loaded 48K

E92 M3 base 60k

To get a 335 even close in performance:
procede 1500
suspension 2500
LSD 3500
lightweight interior and body panels 5500
Etc. Etc.

Seems to me your gonna spend that 15 to 20k difference just to catch up to the M3's
street capabilities, and you will still get spanked on the track

I, personally, think the m3 msrp will start at 55k and a fully equiped m3 will be in the 70ks range. This might be wishful thinking but I don't think the official msrp on the base m3 will be 20k (335i base msrp 40.2k) over 335i. I probably just shot myself in the foot since the price differential between 550i and m5 is greater than 20k

[ddsm3]

what the new m3 will have that the 335i doesnt.

cf roof
n/a v8 with 420 hp and 295 lbs tq - 8300 redline
sound of an n/a v8
lightweight drivetrain
close ratio transmission
better brakes and suspension (shocks, springs, swaybars)
and I guess the biggest one is LSD
the new m3 will be lighter and have 120 more hp stock

sure you can procede a fully equipped 335i
add an exhaust
add coilovers
add better brakes
add bigger sway bars
add the aerokit addon
and add an LSD <-- one most important
that will leave you with something ALMOST as fast and something that ALMOST handles as well as the new m3.

All those mods installed will run you about to around 10k-15k. Now your 49k fully equipped 335i is 59k - 64k with no waranty on the engine, drivetrain and suspension because you added procede, coilovers and lsd. The new m3 base price is going to be around 56k and fully equipped around 66-68k. a few grand more than your fully modded 335i. The 335i is a great car, but it is no m3. You guys are saying 65-70k for an m3 is a lot. What about 50k for a normal 3 series (335i) fully equipped. What I do like about the 335i, is the looks. The e92 with front aerokit looks better than the m3 to me, but not by much.

[Next M3]

Originally Posted by sflgator

My "almost" fully loaded 335i had an MSRP of $53k (and that includes the ss pedals and window tint I made my dealer throw in at n/c ) and I got it for $49,500. So far, some ppl expect a somewhat fully loaded '03 M3 to have an MSRP ~ $70k which is $17k more than my 335i. Also, most ppl agree that the new M3 will not be discounted at least for the first MY of 2008; so, then you have to figure that a similarly-equipped M3 will end up being > $20k more than a 335i.

M3 will always be more exclusive, better looking, better handling, and hold it's value better.

[CoralRedPlz]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

+1

People talk about an M car like its built by a mythical beast and employs alien technology BMW stole from area 51.

Its a factory tuner car. Its 25% very well engineered mods to the pedestrian 3 series and 75% very well researched advertising from the M marketing machine. And I agree with Skip also that there are much better track choices than an M. You could buy a used E90 325, spend 3 months gutting it to get the weight down and bolt on aftermarket suspension, brakes, wheels and you would lap M3s all day long on the track. You'll have no warranty and no flashy M badge but you will most certainly have a more capable car.

The defensiveness goes both ways - 335i drivers trying to justify their car, and future M owners trying to justify theirs. So all the talk about defensiveness is silly because its a wash IMHO. To me its certain there will eventually be 335i's out there trouncing the M3 for less money. Its just a matter of time.

+1


i still have my deposit in for the new M3 (3rd in line in denver area dealer), but most likely wont go ahead with it.

i like my cars loaded out with all the toys. its the way ive always been and wont stop now. that being said, my 335i with procede was about $51.5k. from guesses ive seen around here, im sure a loaded out M3 will cost nearly 16-20k on top of that number.

will the new m3 out perform the 335 in everyway at the track?

no doubt.

do i want a harsh ride that the M will likely provide?

nope. i drive long distances fairly often and absolutely love the 335 for that purpose.

so the M3 will be 15-20k more, will have a much harsher ride and will only really outperform my car at the track.

i have tracked my 335 a couple of times already, but i think im going to put an end to that, since its a car i really want to hang onto for a while and if i get into tracking, not having an lsd and being that heavy isnt great anyways.
ill most likely take that extra 20k to possibly buy/build a track car for fun and keep my 335 for everything else.


btw, this is all coming from someone who wouldnt even test drive the 335 at first bc i was so set in my mind that i wanted the new m3, so im hardly an M3 hater .

all that being said, the new m3 looks like an amazing car and i cant wait to take one for a spin.

[bzabodyn]

The ultimate problem with the new M3 is that the performance gap between it and the next closest sibling in the 3-series lineup is now slimmer than ever - the previous E46 M3 compared to the E46 330i vs. the E92 M3 compared to the E92 335i (with Procede, of course) - so BMW has created quite a problem... if the new M3 does come in with a base price over $55k, they can kiss their sales estimates good bye...

I was pretty set on enjoying the 335i for a couple of years and then trading it in on an E90 M3, but with a Procede, 19" FORGED CSLs, suspension, and some cosmetic mods, there just isn't going to be a reason for me to give my hard-earned money back to BMW...

BZ

[Sal@AUTOcouture]

my SA was telling me the new base price isn't going to be more than $57k on the new M3. How much reality there is to that.....well, we'll see when it comes out

[Fester]

hmm...very interesting, its torque is less than 335i (295 vs. 300 ft-lbs)....

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by Fester

hmm...very interesting, its torque is less than 335i (295 vs. 300 ft-lbs)....

Yes, and real-world dyno test numbers (by numerous sources including car mags, etc.) show that a stock 335i really has ~ 340-350 lb.-ft. TQ (and ~ 320BHP); a PROcede-equipped 335i has ~ 380-390BHP and ~ 450 lb.-ft. TQ! At least numbers-wise, the gap between the '08 M3 and a PROcede-equipped 335i is small in deed, with a major TQ advantage to the PROcede-equipped 335i and an HP advantage to the '08 M3.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Wow, that's A LOT of torque! ^^^^

Look the bottom line is that if you're knocking the 335 because the M3 is better at the track, who gives a shit? You are willing to pay $20,000 more because it can go around loops better than a 335? Whatever. Fully loaded without the auto tranny I'm paying $43,000 for mine.

Oh and DDSM3. Right now, you have 9 posts. Be quiet son.

[LJ35DRVR]

Originally Posted by ddsm3

what the new m3 will have that the 335i doesnt.

cf roof
n/a v8 with 420 hp and 295 lbs tq - 8300 redline
sound of an n/a v8
lightweight drivetrain
close ratio transmission
better brakes and suspension (shocks, springs, swaybars)
and I guess the biggest one is LSD
the new m3 will be lighter and have 120 more hp stock

sure you can procede a fully equipped 335i
add an exhaust
add coilovers
add better brakes
add bigger sway bars
add the aerokit addon
and add an LSD <-- one most important
that will leave you with something ALMOST as fast and something that ALMOST handles as well as the new m3.

All those mods installed will run you about to around 10k-15k. Now your 49k fully equipped 335i is 59k - 64k with no waranty on the engine, drivetrain and suspension because you added procede, coilovers and lsd. The new m3 base price is going to be around 56k and fully equipped around 66-68k. a few grand more than your fully modded 335i. The 335i is a great car, but it is no m3. You guys are saying 65-70k for an m3 is a lot. What about 50k for a normal 3 series (335i) fully equipped. What I do like about the 335i, is the looks. The e92 with front aerokit looks better than the m3 to me, but not by much.

That's just retarded. You seriously think that a 335 with all the mods (tuning, turboback exh, coilovers, quaife lsd, 4-6 pot bbk) would not destroy any stock M car on the track?

Listen, the 335 and the m3 will be two different beasts. For most of us looking for a daily driver that can be fun if pushed, the 335 is more than adequate. How many m owners track their car? How many 335 owners track their car? How many m owners ever use the full potential of their car? How many 335 owner ever use the full potential of their car? Not many on all accounts.

For most of us, the 335 (stock) is a very, very good alternative to an M3 without all the drawbacks (high price, rough around the edges, etc.) I love the look of all M cars. I would rather sacrifice a tiny bit of performance (that most of us will never realize anyway) in order to gain a significant amount of drivablility.

40K vs 70K - its a no-brainer - especially if you don't race the car. Shit, my buddy just bought an 06 M5 dealer demo with 4K miles, loaded with HUD, SMG, Adaptive seats, all that shit, for 69K. No way I would pay 27K more for that car than I paid for my 335. The actual difference is just to small for that much money. Like someone else said, for the extra money, I could have an ass load of toys, truck, boat, 4 wheelers, jet skis, motorcycle. If I wouldn't part with the money for a loaded M5, no no no way I would spend it on an m3.

Unless you are loaded and willing to pay for the badge and the IDEA of M and Carbon Fibre components, you would be dumb to buy the M. As somebody else mentioned, if you are looking for a pure track car, there are better ways to spend your money. If you are looking for status, get the m. If you are looking for value, get the 335.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by LJ35DRVR

That's just retarded. You seriously think that a 335 with all the mods (tuning, turboback exh, coilovers, quaife lsd, 4-6 pot bbk) would not destroy any stock M car on the track?

Listen, the 335 and the m3 will be two different beasts. For most of us looking for a daily driver that can be fun if pushed, the 335 is more than adequate. How many m owners track their car? How many 335 owners track their car? How many m owners ever use the full potential of their car? How many 335 owner ever use the full potential of their car? Not many on all accounts.

For most of us, the 335 (stock) is a very, very good alternative to an M3 without all the drawbacks (high price, rough around the edges, etc.) I love the look of all M cars. I would rather sacrifice a tiny bit of performance (that most of us will never realize anyway) in order to gain a significant amount of drivablility.

40K vs 70K - its a no-brainer - especially if you don't race the car. Shit, my buddy just bought an 06 M5 dealer demo with 4K miles, loaded with HUD, SMG, Adaptive seats, all that shit, for 69K. No way I would pay 27K more for that car than I paid for my 335. The actual difference is just to small for that much money. Like someone else said, for the extra money, I could have an ass load of toys, truck, boat, 4 wheelers, jet skis, motorcycle. If I wouldn't part with the money for a loaded M5, no no no way I would spend it on an m3.

Unless you are loaded and willing to pay for the badge and the IDEA of M and Carbon Fibre components, you would be dumb to buy the M. As somebody else mentioned, if you are looking for a pure track car, there are better ways to spend your money. If you are looking for status, get the m. If you are looking for value, get the 335.

Whew! Get 'em bro!

[imolazhp_ci]

Originally Posted by LJ35DRVR

That's just retarded. You seriously think that a 335 with all the mods (tuning, turboback exh, coilovers, quaife lsd, 4-6 pot bbk) would not destroy any stock M car on the track?

Listen, the 335 and the m3 will be two different beasts. For most of us looking for a daily driver that can be fun if pushed, the 335 is more than adequate. How many m owners track their car? How many 335 owners track their car? How many m owners ever use the full potential of their car? How many 335 owner ever use the full potential of their car? Not many on all accounts.

For most of us, the 335 (stock) is a very, very good alternative to an M3 without all the drawbacks (high price, rough around the edges, etc.) I love the look of all M cars. I would rather sacrifice a tiny bit of performance (that most of us will never realize anyway) in order to gain a significant amount of drivablility.

40K vs 70K - its a no-brainer - especially if you don't race the car. Shit, my buddy just bought an 06 M5 dealer demo with 4K miles, loaded with HUD, SMG, Adaptive seats, all that shit, for 69K. No way I would pay 27K more for that car than I paid for my 335. The actual difference is just to small for that much money. Like someone else said, for the extra money, I could have an ass load of toys, truck, boat, 4 wheelers, jet skis, motorcycle. If I wouldn't part with the money for a loaded M5, no no no way I would spend it on an m3.

Unless you are loaded and willing to pay for the badge and the IDEA of M and Carbon Fibre components, you would be dumb to buy the M. As somebody else mentioned, if you are looking for a pure track car, there are better ways to spend your money. If you are looking for status, get the m. If you are looking for value, get the 335.

this is what happens when former japanese car owners invade a BMW forum.