Automobile Magazine - Oct. 2007 M3test

[Stahlgrau]

Originally Posted by carnuts3

I agree that this is a somewhat positive article about the new M3, even though it talks up its obvious weaknesses - brakes and steering. The writers prefer the new M3 over the RS4 - but they also warn of the pending intro of the C63 being something that BMW should worry about - big time!!!!

They've got to build up the drama.

[ruff]

Originally Posted by Stahlgrau

Hmmm. Maybe I'd like to drive it myself instead of calling for a recall before it's even hit the streets.

As for the Cadillac, weren't you just complaining about BMW going the way of American Muscle, yet you're willing to praise the CTS-V because they're dropping a big ol' pushrod engine in it? Neat.

We'll see how the C63, RS4, and CTS-V hold up when there are some official competitions.

No, I've never driven a Cayman, but I've driven an E46 M3. There were these same complaints about the steering on the E46, but I never had any complaints. If you expected Cayman steering feel from the M3, I think your expectations were a little bit high when even Porsche's higher-end models can't match that.

Have you ever driven an E92 M3?

Good post. Vette doesn't have a great motor? M3 steering spot on according to the majority of those who have driven it? CTS steering not improved over previous models? Ok, now I finally understand your argument. Not lucky enough to have driven the E92 M3 but I have driven a car that provides feedback and steers like it is possessed and one the M3 should at least be aiming for. You're right, my expectations are probably too high for the M3. But this is the latest and greatest M now isn't it? We haven't had to "settle" for any M in the past. I never witnessed this number of mounting negative reports with previous Ms, even from it's harshest critics. Since you bleed roundel blue and white, you ought to at least agree with me about this first statement: The M division has some of the best engineers on the planet. So why did they focus their attention on making numerous settings for steering, throttle response, and dampening yet according to drive reports still couldn't create a setting that provides steering feel? Porsche's steering without any settings is beyond good...what am I missing here? Don't they say they are shooting for the 997, sounds more like Lexus conforts to me. I can't vouch for you but those who have followed the M since it's inception can tell you the M's steering feel with each succeeding generation has not improved but worsened. If the E92 had the steering of the E30, it's steering would be getting high praises rather than "major disappointment." if the M3 has trouble staying on top with it's imminent release, how will it compare to the competition 2 to 3 years from now. I really hope you are right. I wish I could be like you and just worship everything M inspite of mounting evidence against it. Do believe all these reports are bogus, anti M propaganda? I hope M recognizes potential problems and is willing to step it up and spend the money to fix the reported problems. I would cough up 5+ grand in a heart beat for brakes that don't fade and steering that feels intuitive, would you?

[Stahlgrau]

Originally Posted by ruff

Good post. Vette doesn't have a great motor? M3 steering spot on according to the majority of those who have driven it? CTS steering not improved over previous models? Ok, now I finally understand your argument. Not lucky enough to have driven the E92 M3 but I have driven a car that provides feedback and steers like it is possessed and one the M3 should at least be aiming for. You're right, my expectations are probably too high for the M3. But this is the latest and greatest M now isn't it? We haven't had to "settle" for any M in the past. I never witnessed this number of mounting negative reports with previous Ms, even from it's harshest critics. Since you bleed roundel blue and white, you ought to at least agree with me about this first statement: The M division has some of the best engineers on the planet. So why did they focus their attention on making numerous settings for steering, throttle response, and dampening yet according to drive reports still couldn't create a setting that provides steering feel? Porsche's steering without any settings is beyond good...what am I missing here? Don't they say they are shooting for the 997, sounds more like Lexus conforts to me. I can't vouch for you but those who have followed the M since it's inception can tell you the M's steering feel with each succeeding generation has not improved but worsened. If the E92 had the steering of the E30, it's steering would be getting high praises rather than "major disappointment." if the M3 has trouble staying on top with it's imminent release, how will it compare to the competition 2 to 3 years from now. I really hope you are right. I wish I could be like you and just worship everything M inspite of mounting evidence against it. Do believe all these reports are bogus, anti M propaganda? I hope M recognizes potential problems and is willing to step it up and spend the money to fix the reported problems. I would cough up 5+ grand in a heart beat for brakes that don't fade and steering that feels intuitive, would you?

Never said Vette doesn't have a great motor, but that motor in a Caddy just sounds like "American Muscle" to me. I highly doubt the Caddy will handle as well as the M, or your favorite, and benchmark, the Cayman. Guess we'll see.

Why should the "M" be aiming for the Cayman? The Cayman is a 2-seater, mid-engine true sports coupe. Not really the same class as the M3. The M-coupe would be a more direct comparison.


I "bleed blue and white" and "worship everything M" because I'm waiting to drive one myself before I decide that the steering is that of an "Accord", "American Muscle Car", and "Lexus"? If anyone seems biased, it's you. You keep harping on the same gripes over and over only taking the negatives from a bunch of very good reviews. And yes, many of the reviews were positive, but you and a few others don't bother commenting on the positive comments made about the M3. Is there anything you DO like about the M3?

If I don't like the way the M feels, I'll likely move to Porsche, but am willing to be patient and find out for myself instead of taking everything auto journalists say as gospel. I'd consider the AMG if it's as good as the hype and comes with a DCT option. I'd also consider the RS5 when more info becomes available, although I don't know how much I'd like AWD.

I may be reading these reviews differently than you, but I've only read that the M feels numb at, or near center. When load is actually applied, the steering tightens up as it should. I guess I'll be my own judge of that. Doesn't sound like something that I couldn't get used to if I don't think it's too bad.

Yes, I had high expectations for this car, and so far, they haven't been crushed. You seem ready to throw it under the bus without ever having driven it and based on magazine reviews. Can't you form an opinion of your own?

Anyway, since it's obvious the M3 brakes and steering suck, and lacks DFI, why don't you move on? The M is obviously not what you're looking for. What good does it do to continue bitching about it? These things aren't likely to change anytime soon.



BTW, you can cough up $5k for brakes that don't fade if you like. Guess you're screwed on the steering though. There's always the Cayman though.