Rod Bearing Choices limited supply, need in a hurry

[Maxf80M3]

I have spent hours on here watching people debate theories and which bearing company is better etc etc..

I just supercharged my 08 e93 with a 625 kit and i wont be comfortable pushing it until my bearing are done.

Most garages say they cant get the extra clearance bearings in until april most likely may, WTF but others claim VAC is in stock. I've also read that BE has their own variation of ARP bolt ??? is this correct? bore distortion etc.. this shits getting complicated. For guys supercharging please can someone clarify which direction would be the best PROVEN application. Also if anyone can get stock i'd be game to purchase asap.. Also what part numbers should i be looking for ? thanks so much in advance

[pbonsalb]

None are proven yet. If you are concerned about your original bearings, and I would be if I was you, I would change them to any of the options. My first choice would be BE/Clevite extra clearance with ARPs, my second choice would be VAC/Clevite with ARPs, my third choice would be OEM/WPC with stock bolts and my fourth choice would be OEM with stock bolts. I use OEM/WPC with stock bolts.

Once you see the condition of your bearings at your mileage, you can determine the next change interval. If I had terrible looking stock bearings at 50k miles, I would not install BE with ARPs and not check again until 200,000 miles. I would be redoing the bearings again before another 50k miles. Hopefully they would look great and I would then be comfortable leaving the next set in longer. Mine were bad at 60k but not about to fail, so I will replace them again at maybe 110-120k and see how the WPC treated ones held up.

None are proven yet. Very, very, very few have been removed and replaced again. The person who has removed and replaced the most replacement bearings is Malek at MRF and he uses VAC/Clevite (and before that he used VAC OEM with Calico) and I think he reported that all the VAC bearings he has pulled for a second time have looked good.

I am not knocking BE, but far more VAC have been checked than BE at this point in time.

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

None are proven yet. If you are concerned about your original bearings, and I would be if I was you, I would change them to any of the options. My first choice would be BE/Clevite extra clearance with ARPs, my second choice would be VAC/Clevite with ARPs, my third choice would be OEM/WPC with stock bolts and my fourth choice would be OEM with stock bolts. I use OEM/WPC with stock bolts.

Once you see the condition of your bearings at your mileage, you can determine the next change interval. If I had terrible looking stock bearings at 50k miles, I would not install BE with ARPs and not check again until 200,000 miles. I would be redoing the bearings again before another 50k miles. Hopefully they would look great and I would then be comfortable leaving the next set in longer. Mine were bad at 60k but not about to fail, so I will replace them again at maybe 110-120k and see how the WPC treated ones held up.

None are proven yet. Very, very, very few have been removed and replaced again. The person who has removed and replaced the most replacement bearings is Makek at MRF and he uses VAC/Clevite (and before that he used VAC OEM with Calico) and I think he reported that all the VAC bearings he has pulled for a second time have looked good.

I am not knocking BE, but far more VAC have been checked than BE at this point in time.

do you have contact and part numbers...?? im interested in VAC and ARP Bolts, would love the part numbers.

[Powashiftin]

I did OEM/WPC with ARP Bolts. Contact ACM in NJ.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Maxe93

do you have contact and part numbers...?? im interested in VAC and ARP Bolts, would love the part numbers.

Beware there are a few instances of vac sending stock coated bearings instead of vac/Clevite. Make sure the order is correctly placed and verified upon receipt.

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Beware there are a few instances of vac sending stock coated bearings instead of vac/Clevite. Make sure the order is correctly placed and verified upon receipt.

Does anyone have a part number ? And are the BE ARP bolts different then standard ones ?

[pbonsalb]

Just remember to take the supercharger kit off before you make a warranty claim.

[drrust]

The WPC treated OEM bearings have probably been used more than any other available type. EAS on west coast and Autohaus? On east have install deals on them. WPC seemed to be the preferred solution prior to BE.

When I replaced mine I was in a similar situation, BE's were on back order, I had to find who had WPC's in stock as many on-line sites did not have them available.

[deansbimmer]

I've replaced dozens of sets with OEM/WPC, VAC, and BE over the last few years. None of them have come back with any problems that I know of- knock on wood. Now I only use BE as I feel they have the best solution right now.

*putting my flame suit on* I don't think it's quite as important to use one type over another as long as you can verify adequate clearance during installation. IMO it's more important to get in there and do something to address your current bearings before they present issues.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by hawaiiracer1

Hey just FYI i have the VF620 and still on the same bearings and Have pushed it a few too many times thinking its gonna go but its still going strong @ 85k and we've done the Black Stone at every oil change , But the twist for me is I still got 15k warranty its blows I get another engine so thats why I'm not worried ...... In all run it I'd say its a freaking rush @150mph plus

Voided that warranty as soon as you tuned the car, much less strapped a blower on it. And they will run over your car with a fine toothed comb before replacing that engine to find any reason not to honor that warranty.

[GabeS]

What you definitely don't want to do is post in one of the 700 threads that already exists, that already have thousands of subscribers who would instantly see your question, who would have this kind of information for you..
I mean, why not create a whole new thread for a simple question that's been covered...lol

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by drrust

The WPC treated OEM bearings have probably been used more than any other available type. EAS on west coast and Autohaus? On east have install deals on them. WPC seemed to be the preferred solution prior to BE.

When I replaced mine I was in a similar situation, BE's were on back order, I had to find who had WPC's in stock as many on-line sites did not have them available.

That's what EAS told me too. they prefer WPC treated OEM bearings.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by squartus

Voided that warranty as soon as you tuned the car, much less strapped a blower on it. And they will run over your car with a fine toothed comb before replacing that engine to find any reason not to honor that warranty.

Yuuuuupppp, b/c they can definitely tell when your DME has been flashed, which is required for the s/c'er.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Maxe93

Does anyone have a part number ? And are the BE ARP bolts different then standard ones ?

BE-ARP bolts are indeed different than standard ARP bolts.

There is data out there that shows ARP bolts distort the bore and make the problem worse, so you should either use OEM or BE-ARP bolts.

OEM bolts are quite difficult to install. I doubt a shop will ever install OEM bolts to spec, because any mistake requires you to throw the bolt away and use a new one. Unlikely...

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

BE-ARP bolts are indeed different than standard ARP bolts.

There is data out there that shows ARP bolts distort the bore and make the problem worse, so you should either use OEM or BE-ARP bolts.

OEM bolts are quite difficult to install. I doubt a shop will ever install OEM bolts to spec, because any mistake requires you to throw the bolt away and use a new one. Unlikely...

Thanks for the clarification , much appreciated

[pbonsalb]

I believe VAC sells a proven ARP bolt as well. Malek uses them.

And Lang Racing uses a Carillo bolt with success.

Stock bolts work fine. They just take longer to install due to the torque sequence. There is no reason to screw it up. If you could not do it properly you should not be installing bearings in the first place.

[buldogge]

If ARP has a preferred bolt, that they produce, than anyone should be able to get it.

What are the preferred part #'s? ...or, is it some vendor "special sauce" BS??

Someone with the "BE-ARP" bolts please relay the part# from the box.

-Mark in St. Louis

[Maxf80M3]

Originally Posted by buldogge

If ARP has a preferred bolt, that they produce, than anyone should be able to get it.

What are the preferred part #'s? ...or, is it some vendor "special sauce" BS??

Someone with the "BE-ARP" bolts please relay the part# from the box.

-Mark in St. Louis

This is exactly what I was looking for ... thanks

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by buldogge

If ARP has a preferred bolt, that they produce, than anyone should be able to get it.

What are the preferred part #'s? ...or, is it some vendor "special sauce" BS??

Someone with the "BE-ARP" bolts please relay the part# from the box.

-Mark in St. Louis

here's the breakdown

The bolt called 'ARP' distorts the bore. This was measured in the S65 and was already a topic in the S54.
'Really strong bolts' are not necessarily a good thing as they will overclamp and bend the cap by themselves.
This is why when I did the S54 rod bearing DIY I used stock, OEM bolts. OEM bolts do not fail, they are simply a pain in the ass to install.

BE had ARP build a different bolt, known as the BE-ARP bolt. It's measured to not distort the cap, so it is like OEM but with an easier install.
As far as I know, the BE-ARP bolt is only sold on the BE webpage.

[pbonsalb]

There is much to read on the subject:

http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index..../S85_Rod_Bolts

But the bottom line is that plenty of people have used all these bolts -- OEM, Carillo, ARP 625 and ARP 2000 with no issue. Even the ARP instructions say to measure the bore rather than to rely on a torque spec. Of course you cannot easily measure the bore on an installed rod, so most of us cannot torque based on bore measurement when changing rod bearings. We have to rely on a torque spec. Those who have tested, like Lang Racing and BE, have come up with torque specs different from what the rod maker suggests.

[buldogge]

Has anyone actually picked up the phone and called ARP???

-Mark

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

here's the breakdown

The bolt called 'ARP' distorts the bore. This was measured in the S65 and was already a topic in the S54.
'Really strong bolts' are not necessarily a good thing as they will overclamp and bend the cap by themselves.
This is why when I did the S54 rod bearing DIY I used stock, OEM bolts. OEM bolts do not fail, they are simply a pain in the ass to install.

BE had ARP build a different bolt, known as the BE-ARP bolt. It's measured to not distort the cap, so it is like OEM but with an easier install.
As far as I know, the BE-ARP bolt is only sold on the BE webpage.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by buldogge

Has anyone actually picked up the phone and called ARP???

-Mark

to ask what?