16-year-old screamed as he was hacked to death with swords in central London

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

The problem with looking at a statistic like homicides per firearm is the issue of people with multiple firearms. Most people I know with guns own more than one so this biases the figure downwards lessening the severity. For example if you compared two hypothetical countries each with only 2 people. Country 1 has 2 guns owned by one person and murders the other person in the country that would equate to 1 homicide per 2 guns or 0.5 homicides per gun. Country 2 has 1 gun owned by one person and murders the other person in their country which equates to 1 murder per firearm. Both countries experienced the same murder rate per capita but one has half the rate of homicides per firearm because of multiple firearm ownership. You can't just look at the firearm because someone has to use one to murder someone else but only one - you can't murder someone with more than one gun... at least statistically lol.

You are correct. But the point is that there is a wide spread myth that more guns = more deaths. This statistical format proves that isn't always true.

Don't forget that your example goes both ways. A country has 10 people, 1 person owns 1 gun and they murder all 9 people. Now you have 9 homicides per 1 gun. B country has 10 people, 1 person owns 5 guns. He murders 5 people. Now you have a 1 to 1 ratio again. C country has 10 people, 5 of them have 1 gun each. 1 of them intends on murdering 5 people but only murders 1 because the other 4 with guns stopped his murderous spree.

[carve]

Originally Posted by Echo M3

I don't agree with that interpretation. I think what it shows is that there are more violent crimes in the UK, but they result in far fewer deaths (per event and overall). The question is, which do you prefer?

It's not so simple. Sadly for us, for a variety of reasons, the UK has ALWAYS had a lower homicide rate, even before they had ANY gun control. Their rate of gun crime INCREASED after their latest round of gun controls. Ours has decreased with the lapse of the AWB and with more liberal concealed carry laws.

Having said all this, you raise a great point. Poverty and oppression beget crime and violence. Vermont has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country, and has a murder rate of 1.3 per 100,000, which is on par with countries like the UK. Which is about 1/4th of the rate in a state like California, which has far more restrictive laws.

What this means is that gun reform alone is not the solution.

Great point. Not a lot of gang violence in Vermont, and tons of it in CA. That said, if you're not a criminal your level of safety is probably fairly similar in either state.

[carve]

Originally Posted by Id

Yep, Mexico is worse. But is that really the level that you want to measure yourself against as a nation?

So, what you're saying is that gun control really isn't that important compared to all the other factors.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Litos

i'd rather get shot to death than hacked to death.

takes a while for you to bleed out and die from chunks of your body being sliced....

Yeah - with being shot at I can at least shoot back. I am not in the habit of carrying a sword around, nor do I think I will start anytime soon.

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by kingofthedemo

Wow, it sounds like the gun ban really does prevent violence in the UK!


link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...al-London.html

"He was rushed to hospital where he died from his wounds, becoming the first teenager to be killed in London this year."lol...it seams the gun ban does prevent violence...only one teenage killed so far.....

[ScreaM]

Originally Posted by GabeS

...it seams the gun ban does prevent violence...only one teenage killed so far.....

Stronger seams on the victim's coat may have prevented this tragedy.

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by GabeS

...it seams the gun ban does prevent violence...only one teenage killed so far.....

*seems

There were two more last weekend (one of which was shot). Not US #'s by any means, but your point is false. Of the 26 murders so far in London this year, the method of choice was stabbing followed by beating.

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

lol at everyone completely missing the point.