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02-06-2009, 09:42 PM | #27 |
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DAMN!!! $4,700!!
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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02-07-2009, 12:04 AM | #28 | |
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02-09-2009, 06:12 AM | #29 |
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02-13-2009, 12:18 AM | #30 |
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Anymore news on these?
If we don't want the full track kit and just the camber plates, is that that possible? Im afraid the track kit might be to aggressive for street? I don't want to swap springs between daily driving and track. Great looking set up. |
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02-13-2009, 10:01 AM | #31 | |||
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Sorry for the delay - lots going on here.
Simon was right. You can istall them on an EDC car, but you will remove the in-car adjustability. They are manually adjustable. Quote:
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There is no reason in the world to swap springs for a street/track car - that is the magic of having a really high-end damper that can make a moderate rate feel soft on the street or stiff enough for real track use. The level of performance we are at is really quite high - I have a set going to a pure track car in which we will bump spring rates by about 25% which is not wildly significant. Additionally, after some discussion, a track kit is not on the horizon. We will be able to add camber plates to the normal kit - street plates are coming and race plates are now available. We will also be able to add race springs at different rates. On our car, I am honestly not going to add the camber plates. I don't see a big need for more camber now that the car has enough platform to keep it from rolling on the outside edge of the tires. Additionally, I am happy with the performance and more so very pleased with the level of NVH and I am not going to mess with that. I have made enough of my street cars annoying to drive by harshening the ride for better performance. If I'm happy where we are with this car, why bother? |
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02-13-2009, 10:22 AM | #32 | |
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02-13-2009, 10:32 AM | #33 |
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Sweet.
James, what size tires and rims do recommend? Im sold on the Motons, but would like to add street camber plates. I almost got a set for my e46 M3, but the old kits needed high spring rates and low ride heights to get the most out of them. Im very happy you guys have this solution now. This will be the kit to have for the e9X M3!! |
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02-13-2009, 10:48 AM | #34 | |
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I forgot to mention - 2 of my daily drivers do have solid mounts, one has Motons the other has JRZs, and spring rates are close to racing rates - I do place a high value on performance and I don't consider the E92 in any way watered down.
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02-13-2009, 11:10 AM | #35 |
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Hi James,
It looks like the front springs are progressive rate due to the coil design. Can you confirm? From a percentage perspective, how much stiffer are the spring rates front/rear compared to stock? What are the recommended lowering heights for front and rear for this kit? Is the dampener a monotube design or twin tube? Due to the high cost (almost $5k), how does this set compare to the Moton clubsport (which have separate reservoirs) and cost almost the same. Thanks, Steve |
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02-13-2009, 11:49 AM | #36 |
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The fronts look progressive, but I thinik it is just the taper wind. The closer coils don't bind even during track use, so I think that makes them linear?
Spring rates - no one seems to state spring rates. In farct, I wanted a stiffer rear spring while we were testing and called H&R to see if theirs would work and they wouldn't tell me - nevermind that it is a linear spring and I could put it on a rate tester and find out in a matter of minutes. My rough estimation is that we are about 30% stiffer than stock, but the proof is in the pudding. Roll went from maybe 5-6 degrees to about 3-4 degrees on the track which is very much in the proper range. Stiffness on the street is similar to stock suspension, maybe a tick more. Ride heights - we set our car at about 1" lower than stock height for testing. I lowered it another 1/2" after testing for cosmetics. One of the changes I requested was a shorter housing so we could lower it a little more, but the kit won't give a completely dumped look and I don't think the E92 car functions properly way off of stock height - doesn't take very long until the geometry gets pretty out of whack and the rear roll center is completely messed up. Design is a twin tube. There has been a lot of marketing around the catchword "monotube" recently, oddly enough most of it coming from a company that only makes a...monotube. It actually takes a bit more of investment in parts to offer both styles in your product line (all Moton reservoir dampers are monotube), but twin tube was considedred proper for this application and Moton designed all new internals to make it work instead of relying on already developed, already stocked parts. In a high pressure damper, running monotube kind of limits the internal space for the gas over fluid design. Additionally, it makes servicing the damper more painful. As a side note, few people would look down their nose on the new Ohlins TTX line of twin tube dampers with many applications over 5 figures - which also happens to be their latest and greatest design, not ain iteration of what they have been doing for years. In summary there are lots of ways to skin a cat, and monotube versus twin-tube is a point of reference, not a performance specification. Comparison to clubsport... They are kind of different. Clubsports are a damper-only option, will be packaged with a linear race spring (2.25" typically versus stock diameter) and will require a camber plate in the front. CS are remote reservoir so you also need to route and mount the cans. CS give you the ability to adjust canister pressure or responsibility to maintain can pressure depending on how you look at it, and if you have a N2 tank, regulator, and shock tool. Can pressure gives you some tuning options/advantages, but it also adds some hassle and the whole CS setup will add NVH. The Street Sport (SS) is a bolt-on deal, proper spring rates for 95% of users included in a kit that retains front strut mounts. And actually, due to the development poured in this damper line, I actually think they have a better baseline and perform better on the car than the CS (I am referencing experience with CS on E36 and E46 chassis cars - I have not run them on E92). |
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02-13-2009, 04:33 PM | #37 | |
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Thanks. What is "NVH" when you refer to it? |
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02-19-2009, 06:59 PM | #40 |
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Wow, Those Motons looks sick! Where can I get come more info on them?
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E92 M3 ZCP- AW/FR w/Extended Leather) Packages: ZCP, 6MT, Fully Loaded E46 M3 - AW/IR 6 Spd, Fully Loaded. 19'' BBS LM DBK, V-CSL C/F Bmpr, Botld, Diff, V-CSL Custum IR-CF Center Counsel, V-GTR Hood, Dixis Ti 76mm, Meisterschaft Ti Sec. 1&2, EvoSport Headers, CAI, D/A Chip, tck d/a, Alcantera Headliner with Imola Red Sttitching.... |
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02-20-2009, 04:33 PM | #43 |
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More specifically - http://store.bimmerworld.com/Product1156
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02-20-2009, 07:21 PM | #44 |
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So why the difference in price in those and say the TCklines?
TCKE92M3SD E92 M3 Smart Design Coilover $2,418.50 Not trying to be a Nay sayer just trying to understand the difference. |
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