E90 vs e46 for a dedicated track car?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Patrón

awesome thread. i think the loss if an accident happens plays a large roll in what i would prefer. i think an e36m with cams/full exhaust would be just as fun as an e46m. it also depends on what tracks you think you'll frequent. if it were my decision i'd look for a beat up e36m and do an s54 swap you would probably have a beast of a car for less than $10,000. if you wreck, build another one with the motor, if you blow the motor build another s54. i think the e92m is a little too expensive in case of a wreck or blown motor.

I'd just go with the S52 and some upgrades vs swapping in an S54. An S52, in euro trim, was closer to 300hp and its all aluminum so its a lot lighter than the S54.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I'd just go with the S52 and some upgrades vs swapping in an S54. An S52, in euro trim, was closer to 300hp and its all aluminum so its a lot lighter than the S54.

I don't think the S52 was all aluminum. They made a 2.8 in all aluminum for the Z3, but I don't remember any S52 motors being aluminum... I could be wrong...

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by admranger

I don't think the S52 was all aluminum. They made a 2.8 in all aluminum for the Z3, but I don't remember any S52 motors being aluminum... I could be wrong...

Yeah, it is iron. My bad.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Yeah, it is iron. My bad.

A pox on you! No one is ever wrong on the internets!

Well, it's rare anyone admits they're wrong anyway...

Dropping an S54 into an E36 chassis would make for a fun car. Not sure how the integration goes, electrically speaking, but it should fit fine. Lighter weight and a 100 more hp's and a bunch more torques would be nice. I'd likely wreck it getting it off the trailer...

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by admranger

A pox on you! No one is ever wrong on the internets!

Well, it's rare anyone admits they're wrong anyway...

Dropping an S54 into an E36 chassis would make for a fun car. Not sure how the integration goes, electrically speaking, but it should fit fine. Lighter weight and a 100 more hp's and a bunch more torques would be nice. I'd likely wreck it getting it off the trailer...

This is the first time I've ever been wrong!

An S52B32 isn't too far off from an S54. What it lacks in power, it makes up for in terms of cost.

I'd drop an LS into an E36 before I do an S54. As blasphemous as that may be...

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

This is the first time I've ever been wrong!

An S52B32 isn't too far off from an S54. What it lacks in power, it makes up for in terms of cost.

I'd drop an LS into an E36 before I do an S54. As blasphemous as that may be...

The s52b32 is 93-103 hp off the s54. Now you've been wrong twice :P

Op: I have an s50b32 e36 m3 track car for sale. 2340 lbs, 380hp (euro engine, cams, exhaust, intake), aero, stiffer chassis than the z4m (cage tied into subframe and shock towers), brembos, motons, fire suppression.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?p=1066989381

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The s52b32 is 93-103 hp off the s54. Now you've been wrong twice :P

Op: I have an s50b32 e36 m3 track car for sale. 2340 lbs, 380hp (euro engine, cams, exhaust, intake), aero, stiffer chassis than the z4m (cage tied into subframe and shock towers), brembos, motons, fire suppression.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...p?p=1066989381

I was thinking in euro trim. I think it's 290 or something stock. The E46 platform is a bit heavier and beefier. Not sure if that makes much of a difference when you factor in a full cage. I've seen E36s get down to 2500-2600 lbs w/o a cage. I haven't seen any E46s much less than 2800 lbs without spending some serious money. My E46 might be at 3k if I'm lucky. Only cheap weight loss I have left is the wiring harness, sunroof, blower, dash, and a 5sp. I honestly don't see me getting below 2900 without replacing panels with CF and losing the headlights.

But LS1...$7k and you get a brand new engine. A full s54 rebuild will cost you about that easily.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I was thinking in euro trim. I think it's 290 or something stock. The E46 platform is a bit heavier and beefier. Not sure if that makes much of a difference when you factor in a full cage. I've seen E36s get down to 2500-2600 lbs w/o a cage. I haven't seen any E46s much less than 2800 lbs without spending some serious money. My E46 might be at 3k if I'm lucky. Only cheap weight loss I have left is the wiring harness, sunroof, blower, dash, and a 5sp. I honestly don't see me getting below 2900 without replacing panels with CF and losing the headlights.

But LS1...$7k and you get a brand new engine. A full s54 rebuild will cost you about that easily.

S52 was only ever a US engine. The two euro engines are the S50B30 (not to be confused with the S50B30US) at 282 hp and the S50B32 at 321hp in the evo 2. Hence, the s52b32 was only ever offered at 240 hp (93-103 hp off the s54, depending if you're talking about the euro or US engine)

[dmw16]

Have you considered an E46 330i? Granted it doesn't have the power of the E46 M3, but if you have plans of wheel to wheel racing down the road then the 330i would give you the option of moving into the Spec E46 class (which looks promising).

It would be cheaper to track than either of the M3's. A motor is under $1000 from a junk yard. The spec parts are (by all reports) top notch. And you have a growing community from a support standpoint.

Just a dark horse option...figured I'd throw it in the mix.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Obioban

S52 was only ever a US engine. The two euro engines are the S50B30 (not to be confused with the S50B30US) at 282 hp and the S50B32 at 321hp in the evo 2. Hence, the s52b32 was only ever offered at 240 hp (93-103 hp off the s54, depending if you're talking about the euro or US engine)

Wasn't the main difference between the U.S. and euro S50 the displacement and the individual throttle bodies?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by dmw16

Have you considered an E46 330i? Granted it doesn't have the power of the E46 M3, but if you have plans of wheel to wheel racing down the road then the 330i would give you the option of moving into the Spec E46 class (which looks promising).

It would be cheaper to track than either of the M3's. A motor is under $1000 from a junk yard. The spec parts are (by all reports) top notch. And you have a growing community from a support standpoint.

Just a dark horse option...figured I'd throw it in the mix.

An M54 is, IMO, not a good candidate. The reliability track record is poor. The entire cooling system, oil pump nut, conrods (known to fail), requirement to baffle the oil pan, adding an oil cooler, etc.

While there is a solution to the oil pump nut...the theory is that it is due to a bad harmonic when you spin the motor above 6500 Rpms is what causes the oil pump to have issues. You might need up the pump...the harmonic is still there.

By the time you build the M54 to be reliable...you're easily in S54 territory.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

Wasn't the main difference between the U.S. and euro S50 the displacement and the individual throttle bodies?

Nope. Completely different engine. ITB, you needed to shim the valves (like S54), higher reving motor. Having owned a few US spec M3s and getting a Euro Spec (SMG 1 which was aweful and I went with converting it to 6spd myself) the differences were pronounced:

1) Beefier rear draft shaft. Basically the same size as used in the Group A race cars.
2) Rear subframe was completely different compared to US spec M3s.
3) 2.1 rear larger diff. None of the spitting the fluid issue which plagued the US cars.
4) Motorsport headers, larger airbox etc.
5) Engine oil cooler (US cars didnt have it)
6) Larger radiator (3 row)

Car was a beast once we stripped it down to 2800lbs and added full Dunlop slicks (amongst suspension mods; 1000lbs f, 1100lbs rear with JRZ DA etc). I was going to make it into a UAE Touring Car racer and even got the FIA cage from UK but even with the Euro motor/chassis advantages, the S54/E46 chassis was superior. HP/WT there is no way an E36 is keeping up with an S54 let alone the 332i sold in the US (not real M3).

E46 is much more refined, stiffer, you can stuff larger tires, that motor is awesome.

Once stripped, the Euro E36 is plenty fast. I had no issues passing CSL M3s, 911s etc on the straight. Only motor mod was racing flywheel (made a big difference). It would keep up with E9X (stock ones) until 100mph then the V8 would kick in the VTECH yo!



One (wise) thing I learnt from living in Middle East/Europe is that people buy track/race cars for the track and use street cars for the streets. In the US there is a big culture to modify but most folks I knew would get retired (ex series) race cars such as E36GTR, E46GTR, Leon Super Copa, Renault Cup etc. They are very affordable and cheaper to buy than to build. Easy to import to the US (ping me offline if you need to know the process). FIA speced and allowed to run in SCCA/NASA/CCA if you must. When done, they hold their value well. In the same playing field in NASA for instance, HP/Weight class, the factory race car will dominate every single time given equal drivers. Just a food for thought: https://www.racecarsdirect.com/

[bigjae1976]

Yeah

[dmw16]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

An M54 is, IMO, not a good candidate. The reliability track record is poor. The entire cooling system, oil pump nut, conrods (known to fail), requirement to baffle the oil pan, adding an oil cooler, etc.

While there is a solution to the oil pump nut...the theory is that it is due to a bad harmonic when you spin the motor above 6500 Rpms is what causes the oil pump to have issues. You might need up the pump...the harmonic is still there.

By the time you build the M54 to be reliable...you're easily in S54 territory.

All fair points. Of course, you can pick up a donor 330 for next to nothing, so there's that.

But I was more looking at it as a car that should be light on consumables and also has an avenue to move into wheel to wheel racing without the kind of costs you'd see with GTS or the BMWCCA classes that the M3's tend to run in.

Tho maybe for a track car that isn't a consideration. But figured I'd toss it out there.