Any disadvantage to running negative Camber on Street car?

Exclusivs · 05-08-2012, 12:08 PM

Hey what's up Wheel Guru's!

Curious to know if there is any disadvantage to running negative camber on a street car? There is the obvious which is pre-mature tire wear, aside from that are there any other disadvantages? Is handling decreased? Straight line feel off? Just curious because I've never run negative camber, but seems to be popular amongst M3 owners.

Thanks in advance!

THE TECH · 05-08-2012, 12:18 PM

Guess it would depend how much. Handling should be increased. Probably won't notice any straight line changes.

Exclusivs · 05-08-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Guess it would depend how much. Handling should be increased. Probably won't notice any straight line changes.

On the particular setup: -2.50 (F), -2.00 (R)

LateBraking · 05-08-2012, 12:27 PM

You'll tramline a bit more on really poor road surfaces, it gets particularly bad on one freeway heading to one of my local tracks. I wouldn't call it so dangerous as to be threatening, but you'll want to stay focus while driving. I run -3 in the front and similar in the rear.

Porschefile · 05-08-2012, 12:37 PM

Depending on how much you run it can negatively impact tire wear by wearing out the inside of the tires. I don't know how much these cars can run without wearing out the insides. Latebraking do you run -3.0 street and track without bad wear?

LateBraking · 05-08-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Depending on how much you run it can negatively impact tire wear by wearing out the inside of the tires. I don't know how much these cars can run without wearing out the insides. Latebraking do you run -3.0 street and track without bad wear?

I don't change my camber around, but it does kill tires on the inside a bit. OP already stated in his 1st post that he is aware of tire life effects though. I daily drive a Lexus GS SUV though so I'm ok.

aus · 05-08-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExclusivSTS

On the particular setup: -2.50 (F), -2.00 (R)

DAMN!! That's a lot.
One option is to change the tire out side to side as they're wearing out. Not just switch wheels side to side. It'll help even it out.

.

tibra1 · 05-08-2012, 03:28 PM

-1.5 is all I would do on the street..otherwise you may experience more tramlining and accelerated tire wear ESPECIALLY if you do alot of straight highway driving

radiantm3 · 05-08-2012, 03:53 PM

Yea I noticed a huge increase in tramlining when I had the most negative camber possible on a stock setup (pins pulled).

**ben@tirerack** · 05-09-2012, 08:33 AM

A little bit of negative camber is good, but race-car settings on the street can have downsides. The early wear to the inside edges of the tires happens because in a straight line, the tire is (naturally) resting more on the inner shoulder.

Leaning on the edge is not the optimum contact patch for the tire, so there can be some tradeoff in straight-line traction. For a track car the gain in corner speeds will offset any loss in straight line grip, but for a street car the loss of stoplight launch ability and panic stop efficiency may not be worth it beyond a certain point.

thorny · 05-09-2012, 01:12 PM

I run negative 3 up front and 2.1 rear. I didnt see huge difference from stock in around town driving when going straight or on the highway. I dont drive M3 daily. I havent run the alignment enough to comment on tire wear.

My tires are worn from 4 track days, especially both left tires from clockwise driving in Buttonwillow. Interesting that my OEM Contis are worn mostly in the middle to a degree when the sides are higher by a couple of millimeters, I'll post a picture. I did 3 events with stock suspension and stock alignment and 1 last event with KW CS and track alignment. But I noticed this tire wear before. Tire pressure 38-40 hot

gsrbri · 05-09-2012, 01:39 PM

Were you able to dial-in three degrees of negative camber w/the stock suspension? I have a comp package suspension and am wondering what the range of alignment will be.

I plan to add some negative camber due to my frequent track days (6-8 days per season - I'm in New England, so usually only spring/summer/fall) and was wondering how much I'll be able to add. -3 full degrees seems high for a street driven car. I was thinking more like -2 or -2.5 front and around the same rear.

Have you checked your tire temperatures w/a pyrometer at the track? I run around 38 psi (max) all around and I'm finding the outside edges are running about ten degrees hotter than the center/inside edge. My Michelin guide tells me that is because of alignment.

So, we'll see. I'll post my results.

-Brian

05-08-2012, 12:08 PM	#1
Exclusivs Colonel 542 Rep 2,967 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA iTrader: (34)	Any disadvantage to running negative Camber on Street car? Hey what's up Wheel Guru's! Curious to know if there is any disadvantage to running negative camber on a street car? There is the obvious which is pre-mature tire wear, aside from that are there any other disadvantages? Is handling decreased? Straight line feel off? Just curious because I've never run negative camber, but seems to be popular amongst M3 owners. Thanks in advance!
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

05-08-2012, 12:18 PM	#2
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor 307 Rep 13,093 Posts Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas iTrader: (45) Garage List 2013 Nissan GTR [0.00] 2019 Sierra Denali ... [0.00] 1999 Nissan Silvia [0.00] 1999 Nissan Skyline ... [0.00] 1998 Toyota Supra [0.00]	Guess it would depend how much. Handling should be increased. Probably won't notice any straight line changes.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-08-2012, 12:27 PM	#4
LateBraking Brigadier General 326 Rep 3,882 Posts Drives: Relatively Quick. Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: U.S.A. iTrader: (27)	You'll tramline a bit more on really poor road surfaces, it gets particularly bad on one freeway heading to one of my local tracks. I wouldn't call it so dangerous as to be threatening, but you'll want to stay focus while driving. I run -3 in the front and similar in the rear.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-08-2012, 12:37 PM	#5
Porschefile Major 59 Rep 1,250 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tennessee iTrader: (7)	Depending on how much you run it can negatively impact tire wear by wearing out the inside of the tires. I don't know how much these cars can run without wearing out the insides. Latebraking do you run -3.0 street and track without bad wear?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-08-2012, 03:28 PM	#8
tibra1 Banned 127 Rep 6,773 Posts Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NYC iTrader: (4)	-1.5 is all I would do on the street..otherwise you may experience more tramlining and accelerated tire wear ESPECIALLY if you do alot of straight highway driving
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-08-2012, 03:53 PM	#9
radiantm3 Apex Everything! 976 Rep 4,378 Posts Drives: 2007 Honda S2000, 2017 GT350 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cedar Park, TX iTrader: (6) Garage List 2011 E92 M3 [9.35] 2014 BMW i3 [10.00]	Yea I noticed a huge increase in tramlining when I had the most negative camber possible on a stock setup (pins pulled). __________________ 2011 E92 M3(Sold). 2007 Honda S2000 (Track Car). 2016 Cayman GT4 (Sold). 2017 Shelby GT350 (AKA Crowd Killer). My pet project: https://stickershift.com
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-09-2012, 08:33 AM	#10
ben@tirerack M3Post Supporting Vendor 87 Rep 964 Posts Drives: 740i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Bend, IN iTrader: (0)	A little bit of negative camber is good, but race-car settings on the street can have downsides. The early wear to the inside edges of the tires happens because in a straight line, the tire is (naturally) resting more on the inner shoulder. Leaning on the edge is not the optimum contact patch for the tire, so there can be some tradeoff in straight-line traction. For a track car the gain in corner speeds will offset any loss in straight line grip, but for a street car the loss of stoplight launch ability and panic stop efficiency may not be worth it beyond a certain point. __________________ _______________________________________________ I have accepted a new position at Tire Rack and am no longer in the sales department. gary@tirerack.com is available to assist with M3 questions.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-09-2012, 01:12 PM	#11
thorny Captain 83 Rep 954 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Texas iTrader: (9)	I run negative 3 up front and 2.1 rear. I didnt see huge difference from stock in around town driving when going straight or on the highway. I dont drive M3 daily. I havent run the alignment enough to comment on tire wear. My tires are worn from 4 track days, especially both left tires from clockwise driving in Buttonwillow. Interesting that my OEM Contis are worn mostly in the middle to a degree when the sides are higher by a couple of millimeters, I'll post a picture. I did 3 events with stock suspension and stock alignment and 1 last event with KW CS and track alignment. But I noticed this tire wear before. Tire pressure 38-40 hot
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-09-2012, 01:39 PM	#12
gsrbri Lieutenant 560 Rep 570 Posts Drives: F87 6MT Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Boston, MA iTrader: (0)	Neg Camber Were you able to dial-in three degrees of negative camber w/the stock suspension? I have a comp package suspension and am wondering what the range of alignment will be. I plan to add some negative camber due to my frequent track days (6-8 days per season - I'm in New England, so usually only spring/summer/fall) and was wondering how much I'll be able to add. -3 full degrees seems high for a street driven car. I was thinking more like -2 or -2.5 front and around the same rear. Have you checked your tire temperatures w/a pyrometer at the track? I run around 38 psi (max) all around and I'm finding the outside edges are running about ten degrees hotter than the center/inside edge. My Michelin guide tells me that is because of alignment. So, we'll see. I'll post my results. -Brian
	Appreciate 0 Quote