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[Brucewonder]

Originally Posted by aus

LOL. So true.



A Rolex won't kill you and will hold it's value compared to these anchors made by a company that drills extra hole by "accident."

.

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

^ track anchors.

[sales@ESSTuning]

P43SC

[Porschefile]

^my favorite wheels.

[PutterMcGavin]

Of note ALL the failures that I've seen from ADV.1 have been with their multi-piece wheels. I haven't heard of anything about their forged or monoblock designs.

That said OP I have a set of 20" 10.1's that I love! I bought them from the original owner and they had roughly 30k on them. They're as straight and true as they were when new and have held up incredibly well with 30 series on the front, 25 on the rear. This is MY pic when I bought them from the original owner...







Couple more pics here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...ght=adv.1+10.1


*NOTE: I'm not a fan of ADV.1's practices from what I've read and heard. I would NEVER spend what these cost new (for ADV.1's or anything really...) but being used they were an incredible deal. I think the ADV bashing has been a bit exaggerated personally. With regard to quality specifically (not business practices, etc.) we've seen a few cases which I'm sure are simply a fraction of a fraction of the wheels put out by them. Not defending them but no quality is perfect.
__________________

[isugoo]

Originally Posted by aus

LOL. So true.



A Rolex won't kill you and will hold it's value compared to these anchors made by a company that drills extra hole by "accident."

.

Again, they claimed: It wasn't "accident", it was for weight saving...

[isugoo]

Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin

*NOTE: I'm not a fan of ADV.1's practices from what I've read and heard. I would NEVER spend what these cost new (for ADV.1's or anything really...) but being used they were an incredible deal. I think the ADV bashing has been a bit exaggerated personally. With regard to quality specifically (not business practices, etc.) we've seen a few cases which I'm sure are simply a fraction of a fraction of the wheels put out by them. Not defending them but no quality is perfect.
__________________

I'm happy you have no issue with your wheels.
However, it's so sad that the wheel owner has to but the "disclaimer" to talk/show his wheels...

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by isugoo

I'm happy you have no issue with your wheels.
However, it's so sad that the wheel owner has to but the "disclaimer" to talk/show his wheels...

Curious, why is it sad? I only put that so i wouldn't be attacked by the ADV.1 hate horde, not because I'm "ashamed" of them or something frivolous like that. OP asked about wheels and I provided a direct response to his question without bias. He asked about the 10.1's specifically and I provided pictures of them and my DIRECT, HANDS ON experience which from a product quality standpoint has been completely opposite of what others have posted.

People on this forum are too quick to judge and lump people together for sharing their opinion. It seems like with ADV.1 if you say ANYTHING other than you hate them, they're horrible, Jordan sucks, etc. you're an ADV.1 fanboy and don't have a place on this forum because clearly by saying that you aren't a "true" enthusiast. My grandfather was pit crew chief for Parnelli Jones and got his career started, my dad has owned race teams, I do track events (in my E30) and I've been around racing/cars since I was a baby. However I have ADV.1s so I must be clueless...

The way I see it is this. There have been 2 (that I'm aware of) publicized critiques of ADV.1 quality, out of how many wheels? Thousands. Has anyone been injured? No. Has anyone been killed? No. Have there been any issues reported for their monoblocks? No. Have issues been rectified (albeit maybe not in the "best" or most socially acceptable way)? Yes from what I understand. Have most all other ADV.1 owners responded favorably about ownership? Yes. Have I received countless compliments on my wheels. Yes. Have I driven the car hard. Yes, very. Am I still alive? Pretty sure.

Would I buy ADV.1s new? No. Then again I wouldn't buy ANY wheels (BBS, Fikse, et al.) that cost that much new because I personally can't justify 100lbs of metal that is 10%+ of the value of a new M3.

I think with a couple exceptions ADV.1 makes a high quality product. I don't think they've handled criticism and customer concern in the best manner but that doesn't take away from everything they put out and hopefully they're rectifying some of their practices. My $.02

[isugoo]

Hey, sorry if I offended you but I didn't mean it.
What I wanted to say is:

We spend good money to buy aftermarket wheels and we like to share and show off our wheels.
However, ADV.1 owners has to somewhat defend themselves in the forum because of ADV.1's reputation and it's not fair for the wheel owners. That's what I meant. I wasn't really talking about your wheel or your experience. Anyway, if I my post was offended in anyway, I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin

Curious, why is it sad? I only put that so i wouldn't be attacked by the ADV.1 hate horde, not because I'm "ashamed" of them or something frivolous like that. OP asked about wheels and I provided a direct response to his question without bias. He asked about the 10.1's specifically and I provided pictures of them and my DIRECT, HANDS ON experience which from a product quality standpoint has been completely opposite of what others have posted.

People on this forum are too quick to judge and lump people together for sharing their opinion. It seems like with ADV.1 if you say ANYTHING other than you hate them, they're horrible, Jordan sucks, etc. you're an ADV.1 fanboy and don't have a place on this forum because clearly by saying that you aren't a "true" enthusiast. My grandfather was pit crew chief for Parnelli Jones and got his career started, my dad has owned race teams, I do track events (in my E30) and I've been around racing/cars since I was a baby. However I have ADV.1s so I must be clueless...

The way I see it is this. There have been 2 (that I'm aware of) publicized critiques of ADV.1 quality, out of how many wheels? Thousands. Has anyone been injured? No. Has anyone been killed? No. Have there been any issues reported for their monoblocks? No. Have issues been rectified (albeit maybe not in the "best" or most socially acceptable way)? Yes from what I understand. Have most all other ADV.1 owners responded favorably about ownership? Yes. Have I received countless compliments on my wheels. Yes. Have I driven the car hard. Yes, very. Am I still alive? Pretty sure.

Would I buy ADV.1s new? No. Then again I wouldn't buy ANY wheels (BBS, Fikse, et al.) that cost that much new because I personally can't justify 100lbs of metal that is 10%+ of the value of a new M3.

I think with a couple exceptions ADV.1 makes a high quality product. I don't think they've handled criticism and customer concern in the best manner but that doesn't take away from everything they put out and hopefully they're rectifying some of their practices. My $.02

[E90///M3`]

out of these choices... HRE.

but like other have said: you should only be looking at reputable companies such as HRE, Volk, RAC... heck you can go the same route as me and go with Neez (forger by the same people who forge Volks and RAC.)

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by isugoo

Hey, sorry if I offended you but I didn't mean it.
What I wanted to say is:

We spend good money to buy aftermarket wheels and we like to share and show off our wheels.
However, ADV.1 owners has to somewhat defend themselves in the forum because of ADV.1's reputation and it's not fair for the wheel owners. That's what I meant. I wasn't really talking about your wheel or your experience. Anyway, if I my post was offended in anyway, I'm sorry.

No offense taken at all I was just curious about your comment. I agree with your reasoning and do think that no matter how it happened the by product of some less than stellar service and a pretty harsh critique bandwagon haven't been the best for some owners.

Thanks for being mature with your response BTW. We need more "constructive" interactions not attacks and taking of offense

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A bit of a SIDENOTE and I am NOT trying to stir the pot but NO company's history is perfect. Google "HRE wheel failure" or something similar and you'll find something, same with Fikse, BBS, etc. I think the issue here is how it was handled.

Additionally the following link I found interesting with regard to TUV testing posted by HRE http://mbworld.org/forums/cls55-amg-...re-wheels.html

Something that stood out was the following highlighted:

b) WHEEL TESTING CERTIFICATES (Certification of wheels as conforming to geometric standards and having passed structural fatigue and impact requirements for specific vehicle and load rating requirements) - Once a manufacturer’s facility is certified they are then able to send wheels to Europe to pass TUV geometric tolerance analysis and testing for fatigue and impact. This is not a generic style-based test, but vehicle-based with each style being tested with the proper widths and offsets and load rating for the appropriate vehicle targets. This is a very time consuming and costly endeavor for any manufacturer to TUV certify their entire wheel offering, particularly a brand like HRE that makes custom fitments and offers dozens of styles for any particular vehicle. Given this fact, HRE does not certify every style and fitment, however we do have multiple styles in several fitments tested, approved and certified for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Regardless of certification, ALL HRE wheels are designed to pass TUV structural specifications (with varying load ratings depending on vehicle targets) and are sent for certification when the demand for them in Europe meets a minimum threshold.

Also according to that post HRE doesn't post their TUV certificates and that seems ok. If ADV.1 doesn't do it though it is met with the complete opposite reaction.

I LOVE HRE's and if I could justify a set I'd have some P40S's in a heartbeat! I'm not pointing the above out to "bash" or talk down about them (it was the best thing I've seen explaining TUV), there simply is much more to the whole process that people don't understand. From a business perspective TUV is a multi stage process and as pointed out, very expensive and time consuming. I would dare say it is IMPOSSIBLE to certify every wheel that goes out the door. So while TUV is VERY important, it needs to be evaluated in context of the business capabilities both from a resource standpoint and financial. There is a TON of misinformation and ill-informed conclusions made out there so, just trying to help dispel myths, rumors, etc.

[HRE_Mickey]

Just so there is no confusion regarding HRE's TUV certification, here is the complete post referenced above. Keep in mind, there are 2 different topics about TUV certification. First, is TUV wheel certification. Second, is TUV manufacturer certification. The second one is the most relevant in conversations regarding TUV. Please read the full post below to understand the certification.

Originally Posted by Lon@HRE

What is TUV?

Over the years HRE has received numerous questions regarding TUV certification. What is it? Why is it important? What is required? Other companies are starting to claim they have TUV certification and we have received numerous questions as to whether these claims are true or false. HRE can’t determine whether others are properly going through the legitimate process of getting TUV approval or just falsely claiming TUV approval to improve their image. What we can do is clarify what is required of TUV and what you should be looking for from a company that claims to have TUV approval.



1) WHAT IS TUV? - In the case of wheels, TUV is a European auditing and certification body that ensures wheels manufactured for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria meet international (ECE Regulations), EC (European Community) directives, and German Motor Traffic Agency (KBA) road traffic legislation.

2) HOW DOES TUV WORK? - There are 3 major aspects to receiving TUV certification.
a) Manufacturer Certification (Certification of the wheel manufacturer’s quality management system) - If you aren’t an actual manufacturer you can’t be a TUV certified manufacturer. If you’re not a real manufacturer and your supplier isn’t a TUV certified manufacturer you cannot have your wheels TUV approved. This requires that the actual manufacturing facility (in HRE’s case this is our production facility at our headquarters in Vista, CA) passes an audit every 3 years by TUV authorities from Europe. The facility must ensure the manufacture of its wheels meet the standards set by the authorities above in point 1. This is very similar to an ISO 9001 audit and designed to ensure consistent quality of manufacture. TUV wants to ensure that wheels sent to TUV for te sting are not “ringers” and that all wheels manufactured at the approved facility meet the same standards. HRE’s quality management system was originally certified in 2008 by Germany and recertified in 2011 by Austria (which is applicable for Germany).

b) WHEEL TESTING CERTIFICATES (Certification of wheels as conforming to geometric standards and having passed structural fatigue and impact requirements for specific vehicle and load rating requirements) - Once a manufacturer’s facility is certified they are then able to send wheels to Europe to pass TUV geometric tolerance analysis and testing for fatigue and impact. This is not a generic style-based test, but vehicle-based with each style being tested with the proper widths and offsets and load rating for the appropriate vehicle targets. This is a very time consuming and costly endeavor for any manufacturer to TUV certify their entire wheel offering, particularly a brand like HRE that makes custom fitments and offers dozens of styles for any particular vehicle. Given this fact, HRE does not certify every style and fitment, however we do have multiple styles in several fitments tested, approved and certified for sale in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Regardless of certification, ALL HRE wheels are designed to pass TUV structural specifications (with varying load ratings depending on vehicle targets) and are sent for certification when the demand for them in Europe meets a minimum threshold.

c) VEHICLE OWNER CERTIFICATION (Certificates ensuring wheels installed on an owner’s vehicle are TUV certified for that vehicle) - This is a certificate that the owner of the vehicle receives from TUV authorities showing his wheels are TUV certified so he can legally register his vehicle and pass annual inspections in Germany. The wheel manufacturer does not supply this document.

3) IS TUV FOR WHEELS ONLY? - TUV does not only cover wheels. It covers everything from toys to wheels to appliances so companies may hold TUV certificates that do not in any way allow them to legally sell wheels in Germany, Switzerland or Austria. By the same token HRE is only able to sell wheels (not toys) and only those wheels tested in Europe having passed the appropriate tests. None of this is possible without FIRST receiving the manufacturer certification. More importantly, simply by having a wheel pass a TUV test does NOT mean you are a TUV certified manufacturer. You must have a manufacturing facility to certify and that facility must pass the audit.

4) WHY DOESN'T HRE PUBLISH TUV CERTIFICATIONS? - We’ve been asked for a long time to publish TUV certificates. For many reasons HRE does not publish internal specifications and documents, but we will deviate from that decision to help clarify the confusion and show you our manufacturer certificates from 2008 and 2011 and we will show you an example of a wheel testing certificate; in this case the latest wheels sent to TUV for testing, a P43 in 20x9.5 ET42, PCD 5/114.3. The tests required 3 wheels to be tested for cornering fatigue, radial fatigue and impact at 750kg, a much higher level than the original design load rating. All passed. These tests certify the P43 style in that specific width, offset and PCD for that specific load rating.








5) HOW DO I KNOW IF A COMPANY IS REALLY TUV APPROVED? - TUV obviously wants to ensure others aren’t making false claims about TUV approval. For this reason they have a simple website system to check a manufacturer’s TUV Registration ID number. HRE’s current TUV ID number is 20102112006509. This number can be confirmed as genuine by following the link below to the TUV website and entering the registration number or simply typing in HRE. Ask a manufacturer for their registration ID number and website link. They should be proud to give it to you.

HRE TUV ID check: CLICK HERE
TÜV Austria - TÜV AUSTRIA - System Certificates
Search for ID 20102112006509



TUV RHEINLAND CERTIFICATE CHECK, TÜV Rheinland Group - TUVdotCOM Service



If there are any further questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.


HRE Factory tour
Here are some great video tours of the HRE facility and how HRE makes wheel

eGarage - HRE Wheels
How HRE Forged Wheels Are Made - The Octane Report - YouTube
HRE Wheels - "PLUS" level production package example - YouTube

[aus]

That's how you show you're truly TUV certified.

As for ADV quality, there have been many posts about poor finish. While not as bad as a failure, it's still a major pain to dismount the tires and ship the wheels back.

.

[Poofyo101]

There shouldnt even be a comparison between ADV and HRE quality....HRE makes top notch wheels.

[M3PO]

It's a little scary to me that people are cross shopping HRE and ADV.

The last few months have shown that if you want to guarantee the safety of you, your family, and your vehicle, you should stay away from ADV.1.

[db71]

Those monoblocks look good. What do they weigh with tires??? As for the issues with ADV1 wheels in my opinion the last one is a huge issue.

The holes drilled next to each other is not safe or not as safe as no holed drilled next to the bolt hole. The story about weight savings is bs the story about lining up for the valve stem appears to be bs as neither one of those hole sets is centered in one of the openings.

As for my opinion on this if one person takes their wheels apart and finds this what happens if everyone does. I bet this has happened more than once they just never expected anyone to see it you know out of sight out of mind.

The one piece wheels can have issues. also one item not discussed is forgings as HRE uses different forgings than ADV1. When I say different the only similarity is they are aluminum and when done they are a standard shape. But nobody asks how the aluminum gets to that shape how it is heated etc. Maybe someone can tell us the different forging processes as I am not exact on it.

[IFX]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

This thread is like a little gift from sweet baby jesus....

No idea why, but i lost it...



And I'm shocked to not see ADV come in here and try and diffuse the situation... I guess it may somewhat be better that way..

[redline9001]

HRE FTW... They make rim perfection

[PINHEAD]

lmfao
ADV.1 owners quick to defend their purchase to justify getting ripped off
face it, nobody is going to buy ADV.1, new or used...
lolz

Originally Posted by IFX

No idea why, but i lost it...



And I'm shocked to not see ADV come in here and try and diffuse the situation... I guess it may somewhat be better that way..

diffuse the situation? u mean photoshop some fake certificates and then to claim to "fuckurwheels?" Lmfao

[creaminz]

HRE

My vote would be HRE P43SC

[Denk]

HRE P43SC.

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by Lon@HRE

Just so there is no confusion regarding HRE's TUV certification, here is the complete post referenced above. Keep in mind, there are 2 different topics about TUV certification. First, is TUV wheel certification. Second, is TUV manufacturer certification. The second one is the most relevant in conversations regarding TUV. Please read the full post below to understand the certification.

Thanks for clarifying Lon! I wasn't trying to be selective on what I quoted, I just didn't want to post the whole thing.

Keep up the great work and wheels!

Originally Posted by db71

Those monoblocks look good. What do they weigh with tires??? As for the issues with ADV1 wheels in my opinion the last one is a huge issue.

The holes drilled next to each other is not safe or not as safe as no holed drilled next to the bolt hole. The story about weight savings is bs the story about lining up for the valve stem appears to be bs as neither one of those hole sets is centered in one of the openings.

As for my opinion on this if one person takes their wheels apart and finds this what happens if everyone does. I bet this has happened more than once they just never expected anyone to see it you know out of sight out of mind.

The one piece wheels can have issues. also one item not discussed is forgings as HRE uses different forgings than ADV1. When I say different the only similarity is they are aluminum and when done they are a standard shape. But nobody asks how the aluminum gets to that shape how it is heated etc. Maybe someone can tell us the different forging processes as I am not exact on it.

Not sure on the weight but I'll try to get it soon as I'm curious as well.

I do know when I went to look at the wheels at a boxing and shipping store the lady said they weighed "nearly 50lbs" (talking about the rears) and I think I saw that the 295/25/20's weigh around 27lbs (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) so mid 20lbs I would suspect? They do list the 10.1's 20x10/11 at 24.8 and 24.6 respectively for the Porsche Cayenne which is significantly heavier than the M3...

Originally Posted by PINHEAD

lmfao
ADV.1 owners quick to defend their purchase to justify getting ripped off
face it, nobody is going to buy ADV.1, new or used...
lolz



diffuse the situation? u mean photoshop some fake certificates and then to claim to "fuckurwheels?" Lmfao

I'm glad you find it funny and have constructive criticism to add for the OP.

Face it? Face what exactly? I'm perfectly happy with my "used" purchase for what it was; a set of incredibly clean wheels and nearly new tires for what new AG wheels would cost. Clean, straight, no issues at all. So I'm not sure what I need to face here...

[W///]

Is it bad if I click on any threads with ADV.1 in the title nowadays just for pure entertainment?

Originally Posted by Denk

HRE P43SC.

Wow that looks fantastic.