Damm! Z06 will crack it out!

[vegaseric]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

I wish they would have "borrowed" the recipe for cylinder deactivation, too *lol*.

Haha... yea, the S65 is an awesome engine, albeit a tad thirsty!

[Petros]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

I wish they would have "borrowed" the recipe for cylinder deactivation, too *lol*.

well they did on mine. My car is running on 4 cylinders. Failed throttle actuator

Too bad fuel economy hasn't improved one bit

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by Petros

And if you wanna talk about forced induction, you can do that to the chevy small block V8 too, and you will end up with far more power than the S65. Not to mention you won't have to worry about replacing the damn rod bearings every couple of years to prevent the engine from self destructing

Agreed^ 100%

Honestly I spent around 10k for headers, full exhaust, meth, boost a pump, larger injectors, supercharger etc. ....do that with a M3...
See my results when I owned a LS3 2008 vette below...

Originally Posted by dmk08

It'll be nice but you'll still get smoked by a new Z06

Agreed^
Honestly or an old one too...
I had a base 2008 coupe with 430 HP costing 35k originally.
After supercharger and goodies...I had 700 hp at the crank on mine. The M3 does allot of things right from daily driver to performance...but the Vette does performance way above what the M3 can do...don't bother trying to keep up. Stick with the interior being better argument...

This new Z06 is going to be the bomb...and people are gonna line up to bid it up ...skys the limit..

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

First, your were still shitting your underpants when i was racing cars, I know your age kid. For you own sake you need to learn obedience first, boy, not insolence. And that's also why i generally don't bother even reading your replies following my rebuttals on your many hyperbolic and egotistic postings.

sure this big turkey car might pass me on the road or track and i could not care less because it's just brute force, not balanced engineering and therefore also not refined driving and enjoyment.

First comment in bold...This might be the most condescending and arrogant comment I have ever read.

The second comment in bold...if you cannot see a car, that outperforms your car from every possible performance aspect, as an engineering marvel, than you are no longer in reality..

[Nola 32/65]

I'll definitely be in line to get one in a few years, i'll take a targa top 7spd please lol.

As for some people in this thread, they really just blow me away with their remarks and claims that make no sense at all. How can you put down a car that is superior in every single performance category to the M3, straight line and turning, and expect to be taken seriously? What exactly does that say about the M3?

[Dougeefresh]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

This is a useless car. GM has always been behind the present age and is still building cars with the wrong metrics.

Wow, so much hate for a car you haven't even driven... perhaps you have started racing while some of us were "shitting" in our pants but that kind of attitude only makes you older, ignorant and stubborn, not older and wiser.

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

don't bother trying to keep up. Stick with the interior being better argument...

So you had about 60-70whp more than this z06?

A tuned m3 is just as capable as a near 700CRANK Z06... Not as fast but that looks like keeping up to me...

[Petros]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

So you had about 60-70whp more than this z06?

A tuned m3 is just as capable as a near 700CRANK Z06... Not as fast but that looks like keeping up to me...

Throw in some corners and the M3 will understeer into the ditch while the Z06 easily navigates them. Not sure why some people don't understand there's more to driving than going in a straight line. A Z06 is far more capable than any BMW ever made, not just in terms of straight line but also braking, handling, and overall track performance. No M3 has ever come remotely close to what a stock Z06 can do on the track, even with all the mods you can think of.

[6underpressure]

Originally Posted by Petros

Throw in some corners and the M3 will understeer into the ditch while the Z06 easily navigates them. Not sure why some people don't understand there's more to driving than going in a straight line. A Z06 is far more capable than any BMW ever made, not just in terms of straight line but also braking, handling, and overall track performance. No M3 has ever come remotely close to what a stock Z06 can do on the track, even with all the mods you can think of.

+1 to that

[M5Rlz]

Originally Posted by Petros

Throw in some corners and the M3 will understeer into the ditch while the Z06 easily navigates them. Not sure why some people don't understand there's more to driving than going in a straight line. A Z06 is far more capable than any BMW ever made, not just in terms of straight line but also braking, handling, and overall track performance. No M3 has ever come remotely close to what a stock Z06 can do on the track, even with all the mods you can think of.

LMFAO it weighs 3167lbs ... Whats next are you going to brag that it can beat my 4400lb M5 around a track.... But back to the M3, 400+lbs matters, especially when you are talking "turns".. Also its lower profile compared to the M3 is even more conducive to increased mobility through turns...


If you're going to argue "throw in this" and "throw in that"... Than I say "Throw in chris harris in the m3" and my grandma in the z06 and see who wins around the track [it takes her 25 minutes to get 3 miles to the store fyi]

And plenty of people understand their is more than driving than a straight line there is also more than arguing track times you or I will NEVER post because why driving around a track takes real skill and not just cash for the best parts/car. Otherwise Chris Harris would be out of a job.

Oh and FYI I have a deposit down on the c7 z06... Just saying

[Ezio]

Today i was with some car people. also went to the track.

a friends friend brought his new GT500. when i first saw it, i right away felt i got the wrong car. IT was SO BADASS. but after getting a more feel of the car, and the owners struggle to have fun with the car. The car cant grip and its almost to much power to really drive it hard. He misses his old E60 M6, because that car was overall more fun to drive.

the moral of this story is that i think people shouldn't get blown away by these big power numbers coming out of Detroit. I am not a professional driver, i actually wont want to track a 650HP Z06. call me a pussy if you want, but after today i realized i dont want big power cars anymore. And if i was going after big power i would go GTR, that way the car grips.

with that said, i defiantly want something faster than my E92 m3 for my next car. but a Z06 is over the top IMO. I have complete control in my E92. i would want a GT3 before a Z06. personally. but if you are a "pro" and want the fastest car. Z06 is up baby

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

This is a useless car. GM has always been behind the present age and is still building cars with the wrong metrics. Square HP/tq numbers makes for bragging not a practical fast and safe car. Flat torque over a wide revving range is more practical and fun than peak torque with 20% drop at redline (only 12.5% drop for the S65). If you measure the flat torque rev band at 95%+ of max torque you get 4,500 RPM for the S65 and only a puny 1,500 RPM for this general manure car. And it's only a 6400 redline. From an engineering perspective nothing either it's a typical 105 hp / liter for this SC engine considering that a non SC E92 M3 makes 103.5 hp/ liter and more than this vette if supercharged.

You know you are building the right car when other manufacturers will try to copy your recipe. Would anyone want to build a 60s pushrod ugly Ferrvipemaro GTR wannabe ? The answer is a clear no. This is why GM is behind in the game.
That said BMW has lost its edge with the F8x M.

Not to mention this Z06 weighs 3500-3600 lbs and for 650 hp is should be AWD.

Anyone impressed by just big hp/tq numbers is stuck in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's paradigm

Well they are not marketing this to the practical and safe crowd so that comment makes no sense.


Your torque curve analysis would be interesting if we were discussing cars that were comparable in torque numbers. However, the Vette more than doubles the torque output of the M3...although it may be operating outside of its powerband more often than the M3 the torque it is achieving through its torque curve is almost double that of the M3 at any level.

Please explain why you feel that this is puny?

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

So you had about 60-70whp more than this z06?

A tuned m3 is just as capable as a near 700CRANK Z06... Not as fast but that looks like keeping up to me...

First a tune and a mild cam and straight pipes is not going to get a 505 HP at the crank Z06 to 700 HP at the crank......where does it state that he is at 700 HP at the crank?

Second the Vette was pulling on the M3 all the way and ended up disappearing?! Unsure what you expected it to do vanish immediately? No race unless its a Veyron against its competition does that...No one said the M3 with a supercharger is not fast...but without even being supercharged the Vette was still pulling hard on the M3 ! Put the supercharger on it and its good night...

This simply proves my only point....the Vette can be made faster and with lower cost and more reliability than the M3 Mod for mod and $ for $ its no contest. Weight, aerodynamics etc etc....forget it. Again stick with the interior argument you simply proved my point with this video.

[Nola 32/65]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Today i was with some car people. also went to the track.

a friends friend brought his new GT500. when i first saw it, i right away felt i got the wrong car. IT was SO BADASS. but after getting a more feel of the car, and the owners struggle to have fun with the car. The car cant grip and its almost to much power to really drive it hard. He misses his old E60 M6, because that car was overall more fun to drive.

the moral of this story is that i think people shouldn't get blown away by these big power numbers coming out of Detroit. I am not a professional driver, i actually wont want to track a 650HP Z06. call me a pussy if you want, but after today i realized i dont want big power cars anymore. And if i was going after big power i would go GTR, that way the car grips.

with that said, i defiantly want something faster than my E92 m3 for my next car. but a Z06 is over the top IMO. I have complete control in my E92. i would want a GT3 before a Z06. personally.

I would recommend driving or riding in a z06 before comparing it to a gt500. Theirs a reason why GM left the GT500 off its comparison sheet of target cars available on the US market.

[M3-S65]

You guys do realize that even the base C6 Z51 Corvette (essentially a base model with 430 HP) ran a quicker time on the Nurburgring than the M3 E92 dont you? It ran 7:59 to the M3s 8:05...
The C5 Z06 ran 7:56
C6 Z06 7:49 and 7:42

So lets please stop acting like the BMW can compete in a straight line or around the track with a Vette.
I own a BMW M3 and I think it does allot of things better than the Vette, that is why I own it....but the Vette does performance better, no question.

[Nola 32/65]

Originally Posted by 335iRlz

So you had about 60-70whp more than this z06?

A tuned m3 is just as capable as a near 700CRANK Z06... Not as fast but that looks like keeping up to me...

That zo6 is under 600 wheel HP (I know you said crank) and it steadily walks away from the M3. I'm not sure how you're saying the M was keeping up?

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Something else I'm not sure about is why are we even comparing these 2 cars? They are not in the same league at all. The ZO6 is a pure sports car almost track car, made to be driven hard and put away wet. Where as the M3 I would say is more of a luxury sports coupe. Definitly more street and road trip friendly then a ZO6. Its not close to being a track car (in stock forum) but with that said the M3 is still an amazing machine and when compared to its proper competition as in the RS5, C63AMG, CTS-V, IS-F, the M3 definitely stands a part from the rest and IMO that's why we all chose this car over those that I mentioned.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Nola 32/65

I would recommend driving or riding in a z06 before comparing it to a gt500. Theirs a reason why GM left the GT500 off its comparison sheet of target cars available on the US market.

if it anything like a Zr1, it wouldn't be my cup of tea. That car was very tail happy, although in the right hands you could get great laps times.

[PA Z06]

Originally Posted by sunsweet

What i said holds, sorry if it's too technical for you. hp / liter figure of merit shows this is an inferior engine to a DOHC german engine. Then if you FI and SC the DOHC it produces better results / liter.

If no other manufacturer are trying to copy anything GM does (except maybe other americans), then you know you are behind. Still trying to push the same old uninspired "supersize it", "more is better", chest beatin of old age noisy pushrods. No car looks as arrogantly cocky than a vette.
So yeah they've trying to bridge the gaps, now using FI, and you're so proud of their heavy magnetic fluids suspensions. But their mentality is still the same unrefined muscle car, producing worse hp / liter than german cars.
A OHV engine will never be as progressive, safe and linear to race than a DOHC. It's an inferior car to track at all levels.

A DOHC 6.2L SC FI would make much more hp than this vette. Why they don't make it ? because they know better than to make a useless car like this.

Did You get fired from GM or something, so much hate. I love cars in general, and you can't compare the two. My z06 is a beast on the track and would destroy my M, but the M is so much more refined to drive everyday and take my son to school.
Btw that magnetic suspension was copied by Ferrari and Lamborghini

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by s85e90

You sound like a typical engineer... Typing a bunch of fluff, bashing pushrod motors, and figures, but have you ever driven or owned one??

It's certainly not behind the times... Or maybe it is, and there's no reason for all this newfound tech... Shit the new M3 will have electronic wastegate control.. Can't wait for that to break.

Take a look at Chevy Racing pedigree also. I am certainly not an American Car fan at all!!! But The corvette is a very well put together car..

Oh, BTW you forgot to mention that they were still using leaf springs on the vette. Talk about old tech!

Agreed. It is all mental masterbation. I am a firm believer in the saying that the "proof is in the pudding". You can talk and theorize all you want. The final word will be in the drive.

The thing I find more peculiar, however, is why people are even comparing an M3 to a Corvette. One is a full-function luxury-performance coupe/sedan, and the other is a pure purpose built sports car.

[F1Venom]

The M3 is no match for the Z06. Leave it at that. If someone's cross shopping the two, then they're doing it wrong. The F80 M3 is a turbo 3cyl sporty dd that can be fun on the track and the street. The Z06 will give you thrills on the highway and will demolish everything on the track. Personally, I'd choose the Z06 over an F80 M3 because the prices are so similar but the performance is out of the M3's league. However, it wouldn't be my only car. And that's the thing, the M3 can be your only car whereas the Z06 cannot (space, comfort, clearance).

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

The M3 is no match for the Z06. Leave it at that. If someone's cross shopping the two, then they're doing it wrong. The F80 M3 is a turbo 3cyl sporty dd that can be fun on the track and the street. The Z06 will give you thrills on the highway and will demolish everything on the track. Personally, I'd choose the Z06 over an F80 M3 because the prices are so similar but the performance is out of the M3's league. However, it wouldn't be my only car. And that's the thing, the M3 can be your only car whereas the Z06 cannot (space, comfort, clearance).

My only issue with Corvettes is that there are simply too many on the road, although the Z06 is certainly more of a rare bird.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

Today i was with some car people. also went to the track.

a friends friend brought his new GT500. when i first saw it, i right away felt i got the wrong car. IT was SO BADASS. but after getting a more feel of the car, and the owners struggle to have fun with the car. The car cant grip and its almost to much power to really drive it hard. He misses his old E60 M6, because that car was overall more fun to drive.

the moral of this story is that i think people shouldn't get blown away by these big power numbers coming out of Detroit. I am not a professional driver, i actually wont want to track a 650HP Z06. call me a pussy if you want, but after today i realized i dont want big power cars anymore. And if i was going after big power i would go GTR, that way the car grips.

with that said, i defiantly want something faster than my E92 m3 for my next car. but a Z06 is over the top IMO. I have complete control in my E92. i would want a GT3 before a Z06. personally. but if you are a "pro" and want the fastest car. Z06 is up baby

Totally wrong conclusions there. The problem is the GT500 is not track tuned. The suspension is all wrong. It's designed for drag strips, not a road course. It's a dog on the track. A Boss302 is a much better platform for a track car. The suspension is dialed in much better and the car is better balanced.

It's quite ignorant and uninformed to suggest a Z06 is all about big power and just that. It isn't. The Corvette road car program is very closely intertwined with the race car program. The Z06 will have lots of engineering and technology copied from the Corvette race cars that do so well in endurance racing. In other words, it will have great handling and very good balance. The Z06 will be a blast to drive and will make the M3 feel like a boat in comparison. Even in the hands of an average driver going at only 8/10th, it will still be faster than 99% of the cars you see at track days.

And a GT3 isn't really any easier to drive than a Z06 either for a beginner. The rear weight bias and the presence of the heavy engine all the way at the back of the car make the handling of the car unique and unlike anything you may have driven before. You would basically have to re-learn driving all over again before you can push to the limits and extract the car's performance.