Heart broken after dyno. Ess S/c m3 and AA s/c m3

[ONE_slow_m5]

Saturday my buddy an i both decided to take our newly purchased M3's to the dyno. Now i know these cars are not dyno queens and are for track but we both wanted to make sure the power was there.

We get to the dyno around noon and let the cars cool down for about 45 minutes. (85 degrees in TX)

car 1: 2008 M3 e92 56,000 with ess-625 package and Snow performance meth kit
Active Autowerk exhaust and a ton of track mods but these are the main ones. I don't know much about the history / maintenance of the car.

car 2: 2009 M3 e92 with 56,000 with AA stage 2 no meth.
Akrapovic Exhaust.
Car was highly maintained and just got a PPI done and everything checked out perfect.

both cars are DCT, Dyno was done in 4th gear and one run was in 5th for car 1 and 93 octane.

We get on the Dynojet and both cars were making about 470-480whp. We were both expecting 550'ish. So we figured this dyno is not happy today even thought we have been using it for our previous cars for 2 years and were always on point with numbers across the country. Didn't think too much of it since both cars made similar numbers we figured its the dyno. What are the chances of both cars having a hiccup/issue...

Got the chance to run my old car a FBO 335i but was only pushing 14 psi and no e85 so around 400whp. We were neck and neck the whole time. Thats when i start to worry something is up. Should have put buses on that car. So now I'm trying to see if something is up with the cars.

1)I will start by changing the oil and sending it to blackstone because i need to do that anyways.
2)will replace the spark plugs because i don't know when they were last replaced.
3)will check the vacuum lines to the Diverter valves and make sure the velocity stack are lined up and tight on the manifold.
4) Will order an ESS tuning cable and reflash the Tunning file incase it has been modified by the previous owner.


I attached a copy of the dyno graph below. the 500+and 490+ runs were AFTERs shifting so ignore those runs they are NOT accurate.


Anything else i can look for? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advanced.

[Sales@Alekshop]

You should log boost while on the dyno. Without a boost reference you will have no idea if the hardware is working as intended and you will be guessing. On a dynojet with fair ambient temps you should be in the 520-530 whp on average. Water Meth will not make a lot of power on these cars. You can maybe expect +10 whp at most if it is hot enough out but at 85 deg I would not imagine it would make much of a difference on the dyno.

If you do not know the history of the car you should make sure you have the latest version of software from ESS.

[ONE_slow_m5]

To the best of your knowledge is the only way to log boost on these cars with a boost gauge have it ran to the velocity stack?

[Sales@Alekshop]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

To the best of your knowledge is the only way to log boost on these cars with a boost gauge have it ran to the velocity stack?

You can simply tap the vacuum line that runs off the Bypass valve for boost reference.

[ONE_slow_m5]

Originally Posted by Sales@Alekshop

You can simply tap the vacuum line that runs off the Bypass valve for boost reference.

That should be easy, someone was telling to that if needed to hard wire a p3/ Awron gauge the manifold has to come off

[8600RPM]

Old plugs will kill power in s65 let alone supercharged one. Looking at 40 hp easy

[ONE_slow_m5]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Old plugs will kill power in s65 let alone supercharged one. Looking at 40 hp easy

That's the first in my list

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

That should be easy, someone was telling to that if needed to hard wire a p3/Areon gauge the manifold has to come off

P3, no. Awron, if you use the EAS velocity stack, yes.

[DangerM3]

This sounds right, My car was making 465whp before a meth and retune. After the retune I'm making 540whp at 7 pounds of boost with a gen2 AA kit.

[ONE_slow_m5]

Originally Posted by DangerM3

This sounds right, My car was making 465whp before a meth and retune. After the retune I'm making 540whp at 7 pounds of boost with a gen2 AA kit.

Meth wasn't your fix, the retune was ^. Meth will only help lower AIT and maybe add 10hp.

[Physics]

Why would a re-tune be needed? Tunes don't magically become slower. There is either a mechanical problem or boost leak in the system.

[wheatpaste]

Random question, but what size are your wheels? I see from your profile the car has ADV.1's. Usually those are pretty heavy 19" or 20" wheels. If you're trying to get as much power to the wheels as possible, I'd look at going back to OEM 18" or a lightweight aftermarket 18" wheel.

I'm not implying this is your only issue, but I think you're leaving power on the table by running a larger diameter/heavier wheel than necessary. All the other advice in this thread is certainly good too.

[ONE_slow_m5]

Originally Posted by wheatpaste

Random question, but what size are your wheels? I see from your profile the car has ADV.1's. Usually those are pretty heavy 19" or 20" wheels. If you're trying to get as much power to the wheels as possible, I'd look at going back to OEM 18" or a lightweight aftermarket 18" wheel.

I'm not implying this is your only issue, but I think you're leaving power on the table by running a larger diameter/heavier wheel than necessary. All the other advice in this thread is certainly good too.

That maybe true i don't know how much they weight. They are Track spec wheels so can't be too much. On the dyno it shouldn't really make a difference. I have had 19" on my other cars.

[ONE_slow_m5]

Also, are these the recommended plugs NGK LKR8AP?

[DangerM3]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

Meth wasn't your fix, the retune was ^. Meth will only help lower AIT and maybe add 10hp.

That's what I'm saying. Are you still running the canned tune from Ess/AA.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

Meth wasn't your fix, the retune was ^. Meth will only help lower AIT and maybe add 10hp.

If you have a tune that will take advantage of it, meth/water will add octane and increase knock resistance, allowing higher timing targets and more power. You are correct that if you are already hitting your tune's timing targets all the time under boost, the meth won't help in that respect and that it will only decrease IAT. As you noted, decreasing IAT will also increase power. You would have to monitor IAT under all your driving conditions to see how much good it would do. On a hot day or on the track it would help more that a cold day on the street.

[ONE_slow_m5]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

If you have a tune that will take advantage of it, meth/water will add octane and increase knock resistance, allowing higher timing targets and more power. You are correct that if you are already hitting your tune's timing targets all the time under boost, the meth won't help in that respect and that it will only decrease IAT. As you noted, decreasing IAT will also increase power. You would have to monitor IAT under all your driving conditions to see how much good it would do. On a hot day or on the track it would help more that a cold day on the street.

understood.
Ordered liqoy moly 10w60 to change the oil and send the old oil to black stone.
ordered NGK (4471) LKR8AP Laser Platinum Spark Plug (im assuming these are whats recommended)
Got the oil pack remover already to make life easier.
in the process of getting a tuning cable from ESS and a p3 guage now.

[Patrón]

i can't comment on the run against the 335 but if the other boosted car made similar hp/tq and your psi are similar perhaps there was something with the dyno. even though it's a dynojet the operator can change a lot of variables one of which is the load. but like i and others have mentioned, you should first get the boost readings and see what those are before looking at anything else.

[ONE_slow_m5]

Originally Posted by Patrón

i can't comment on the run against the 335 but if the other boosted car made similar hp/tq and your psi are similar perhaps there was something with the dyno. even though it's a dynojet the operator can change a lot of variables one of which is the load. but like i and others have mentioned, you should first get the boost readings and see what those are before looking at anything else.

The 335i is my old car the setup its on now (super conservative) as my friend (the new owner) is a new owner of a car over 150hp. so maybe 360whp is what its making right now.

already got a bunch of stuff lined up. Just waiting on New tunning cable and p3 gauge.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

Also, are these the recommended plugs NGK LKR8AP?

Yes that's the same one as the factory plug.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

The 335i is my old car the setup its on now (super conservative) as my friend (the new owner) is a new owner of a car over 150hp. so maybe 360whp is what its making right now.

already got a bunch of stuff lined up. Just waiting on New tunning cable and p3 gauge.

did you already buy the p3 gauge? you are going to love it, it's a great product.
if you haven't i highly recommend buying it from AUTOCOTURE because their p3 has some features that the regular p3 doesn't (AFR, etc...)

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Blown__m3

Also, are these the recommended plugs NGK LKR8AP?

These are the stock plug, right?

The ion sensors on mine got corroded and I dropped 40 HP. New plugs, back to the dyno and BAM, back up to 570 wheel.

I thought maybe it was your dyno but running the 335i confirms you are not making the power you should be. Hope you get it squared away soon.