Pricing barrier/limit - at what price will your M3 dreams not come true?

[E90-4life]

Went to a Porsche dealer today, penciled in an "appointment" to drive a Cayman S, the dude knows I'm not buying the car(yet) and said he loves his job so much he doesn't mind me dropping in for a cruise, and besides he knows I have collegues from whom he could earn buisness, networking is truly an art. Anyways they had nothing but 6 speeds at the dealer today and more tips will be coming in soon(don't know how to drive stick just yet folks). I played around the the seat adjustment and found that I can indeed find a perfect fit in the car, now to get the pops to cough up $70+k for me to get in a Cayman S(not gonna happen). Aspiring Cayman owner I am... but something tells me I might rather have an E90 M3 sedan

[Ghunger]

Seems like you'd have to be extremely careful buying a used M3. Gotta be careful who you buy it from. If you could luck out and find someone who bought it for the status, and is upgrading and not worried about taking a small loss. That would be perfect.

[shimshimhada]

The manual transmission on Porsches are really easy to drive, and hard to stall if you're a beginner.

[ichiautobahn]

Originally Posted by hsiaochinsan

My max will be no more than 60k.

ditto. 60k is max for me.

[THE JEDI]

I am a BMW fan I'd buy a bimmer m-3 over the cayman anyday....and the only reason "PORSCHE" survives is guys like you say hey it's a porsche....come on man it's all about value....

[06330i]

id take the new m6 over a cayman anyday. bmw has a bigger, better history in the 3 series line. porsche unfortunately doesnt, but the cayman still is a hot car

[E90-4life]

Random, but somewhat on topic. I was going out to lunch today, on my way I witnessed a 996 TT cab. making a hard right hander onto a freeway on ramp, and the dude was pushing this thing kinda hard, and the car just STUCK. Very seldom do you see someone make such a simple move at highspeeds and you can't help but stare in astonishment. Thanks impart to it's trick AWD system that it was able to make that kind of turn, but then again I've taken a 996 TT cab into a hard corner at 65.... and it stuck. Amazing car, and one I feel the need to live w/....

[donger274]

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

The manual transmission on Porsches are really easy to drive, and hard to stall if you're a beginner.

i would not let someone learn on a porches.

[Petercat]

Originally Posted by 06330i

id take the new m6 over a cayman anyday. bmw has a bigger, better history in the 3 series line. porsche unfortunately doesnt, but the cayman still is a hot car

Isn't that a totally different class? The M6 seems a bit more in line with a Carerra S, not the Cayman.
The Z4 roadster and the Cayman are direct competition and the only fair comparison.

As far as a response to the original question... I can't see myself paying much more than 60K for an M3.

[Squawks]

Actually, for the price range, the M6 would be way pricier than the Cayman S. Better comparison would have to be the M6 with the 997 Turbo. 997 for me, please.

[Steved]

Well I paid £60k in the UK for my M3 CSL and I would pay it again. The basic M3 costs £43k in the UK (i.e. around 40% more).

I expect the E92 M3 to cost around £50k when it arrives next year. The Audi RS4 is priced at £49.5k in the UK and I cannot see BMW pricing the M3 lower than the Audi equivalent. The E92 M3 CSL which I have registered an order for will be at least £60k but I would expect nearer £65k (in the UK). If it comes with 440-450bhp and weighs around 1400kg (3150lbs) then I would consider that a bargain.

I am choosing between the E92 M3 CSL at say £65k and the 997GT3 at £78k and having owned a 996 GT3 in the past I would still choose the M3.

[Squawks]

Wow, Steved - *already* registered to order the E92 M3 CSL? I'm surprised that you can even do that.

I've never seen a CSL in the states before, quite a rare thing despite me seing Bentleys, Ferraris and Z8s left and right.

[Steved]

I've been a good customer of BMW for the past 12 years or so and my dealer knows my intentions are real - I never buy cars speculatively. I was one of the 100 or so customers that bought a CSL new last time, so I know what to expect for the next one.

I've owned an E46 CSL for nearly 3 years now and it's going to be a real difficult car to replace. Most people who've sold their cars have needed an 996 TT or Gallardo to tempt them away. For me it needs to be a track biaised car and the only other comparable choice is a Porsche 996 or 997 GT3 RS.

I'm really looking forward to learning more about the E92 CSL as news comes out.

[Squawks]

Hey, Steve - I'm really curious, but are you using your CSL as a daily driver?

[Steved]

No not as a daily driver. In fact I'm using it almost exclusively as a track car and we've made occasional trips the Nurburgring and Spa Franchorchamps. I find the CSL too hyper-active to be used every day, it always wants to have fun and never likes to just travel. The noise it makes is very anti-social and it's impossible to drive it in a well behaved and responsible manner. Every corner is an opportunity to slide the tail.

Mine has a straight through exhaust with 100 cell racing cats so develops around 370bhp. it's fitted with 6-pot AP racing brakes and Padid RS19 endurance racing pads. It was delivered from the factory delimited and I've had the change to test its top speed when driving in Germany.

One time I took it to an indicated 7400rpm in 6th gear after reaching the rev-limiter in 5th. If gearing was correct that would equate to 193mph (the speedo needle was wound against the lock stop beyond 185). I suppose real speed was somewhere in the 180mph range. It's such a good car the CSL and I just can't resist owning the E92 version. Imagining a 4 litre V8 with the same kind of carbon airbox would be pure magic..

[Squawks]

Hey, Steve - I apologize to everybody else as this thread is slowly straying off a tangent - but I was wondering what is your critique regarding the SMG on the CSL (relative to a regular manual transmission). Apparently, only the SMG is available on the CSL?

[Steved]

My understanding is that the E92 M3 will be available with BMW's new transmission system ZSG, this will replace SMG. Personally I really like SMG. The CSL uses a computer twice the size of that on the M3, so can process more transactions and respond more quickly. On a circuit it's nearly ideal allowing you to brake much later into corners than with a conventional manual.

We converted a CSL last year to run in an endurance based GT championship and left the SMG mechanism in the race car. It performed well but eventually the heat from the gearbox mechanism overheated the SMG system and the changes slowed down dramatically. But that was in race conditions, on the road I have nothing but praise for it. Some of my other cars have manual shifts and I drive them in exactly the same way as my CSL. I still use heel-and-toe to match revs to gear speeds when changing down, even though SMG blips the throttle it still needs help to execute a perfect change.

My concern on the next M3 will be how they engineer this ZSG box. Unlike SMG which was just a hydromechanical actuator acting as an interface between gearbox and clutch, on the ZSG system this will have a direct shaft that's always engaged. I hope it's nothing like Audis DSG system which loses the sense of a man-machine interface. Everything is too smooth and numb, whereas a paddle shift change for a sporting car still needs to allow the driver to make a difference. Hopefully BMW will remember that as being an important attribute of an M car.

[Squawks]

Thanks for the info, Steve. The info on a overheated SMG tranny is new to me.

I heard (from E90Fleet on E90post) that ZSG would not suffice for the E92 M3 as the smaller clutch of the dual-clutch system (supposedly) wouldn't be able to handle the power of the V8...meaning that SMG would have to stay on the high-power M models. What's your take on this?

[Steved]

I doubt that BMW would go to the trouble of developing ZSG and then not fit it on its most premium models. But we'll see. SMG feels like it has run its course.

We've been having problems in the CSL with the automatic clutch adjustment not working and causing clutch slip after less than 10,000 miles. It seems to affect all CSLs and BMW don't have a solution. Replacing the clutch seems to cure it for another few thousand miles plus a new SMG teach-in procedure, but it's not sustainable. SMGIII in the M5/M6 is much less 'mechanical' and under the drivers control than in the CSL/M3. I find that the system won't allow me to heel-and-toe in the M5 for example, which would be a real problem in the M3. So SMG feels like it has been developed as far as it can go.

Hopefully more news will be released by BMW after Geneva.

[Potteron]

sure that they will find a way to steam more expensive

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by Potteron

sure that they will find a way to steam more expensive

You're replying to a 14 year old thread? About price speculation on a car that's been out for 12 years?

[jd501]

Originally Posted by RedScytheM3

You're replying to a 14 year old thread? About price speculation on a car that's been out for 12 years?

New account, three posts (all today), weird grammar and random punctuation, I'm guessing it's a scammer getting set up.