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      07-09-2014, 09:17 PM   #1
ABE92
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Supercharged M3 vs RB 335i

Hi All,

I am reviewing the pros and cons on whether to go all out on my 335i or to spend the money in getting a M3 E92 DCT with 650HP Supercharger Kit.

I have just reached 513whp at a low reading dyno and I am currently satisfied with the car as I can use approximately, 400-450 whp reliably on a road course. All the limp modes and overheating issues that I encountered in the past are resolved simply by using ethanol and flash map on the road course, surprisingly.

My goal is to have a high 10s car with high boost map and a car that I could reliably trash on the road course too. I could jump into other platform like the GTR but prefer not to do so for now. The remaining mod I intend to get for my 335i is widebody panels via Prior Design or OEM M3 panels. The intent of this mod is to simply have wider front and rear tracks, which shall help in getting higher lateral G and the ability to run 295 square with 10.5 or 11 inch rims.

I will appreciate if you guys with supercharger kit can chime in on any of the following or any other important deliberation that I have missed.

- is your kit causing misfiring, limp or overheating issues at the track?
- any attempt to resolve the above issues or heat soak such as meth kit or low ethanol fuel content etc.?
- any ongoing issues required to maintain or tune the kit?
- any issues with the DCT coping with the supercharger kit?
- best attempt at the drag strip such as ET and trap?
- did you replace the rod bearings as preventative maintenance measure?

Note: If you are thinking of moving to another platform, pm me as this might make it more cost effective for me to switch to m3. Happy with stock or modified m3. DCT only please

Cheers,
Alex
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      07-10-2014, 12:03 AM   #2
MFKN3
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A few years ago I had one of the first stage 3 335's with meth inj. It was quick, but only in a straight line. What really let it down was the suspension, steering and diff which struggled to put the power down evenly. The M3 is such a totally different handling car.

-No, but do recommend only getting one with an intercooler
-Haven't had the need
-Occasional supercharger fluid & spark plug replacement
-I am 6MT and it has been fine
-I haven't tried, but it would be 10s with a good hookup. I can easily pull on 800whp GTR
-Yes
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      07-10-2014, 02:33 AM   #3
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      07-11-2014, 08:53 AM   #4
ABE92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKN3 View Post
A few years ago I had one of the first stage 3 335's with meth inj. It was quick, but only in a straight line. What really let it down was the suspension, steering and diff which struggled to put the power down evenly. The M3 is such a totally different handling car.

-No, but do recommend only getting one with an intercooler
-Haven't had the need
-Occasional supercharger fluid & spark plug replacement
-I am 6MT and it has been fine
-I haven't tried, but it would be 10s with a good hookup. I can easily pull on 800whp GTR
-Yes
Agree with your comment. In fact, shortly after I installed my RB turbo, I almost sold my car for a stock m3 as I was so fed up with overheating and limping issues on the track. Luckily, I tried using ethanol and flash tune instead of piggyback which resolve all the tuning issues I had. I was prepared to make a huge loss back then but has since changed my mind after that.

As for your suspension and steering comment, I have installed all m3 suspension components, LSD with AST coilover. The only thing missing is the wider front and rear tracks hence my intent to get widebody panels. It's going to set me back 22k and that's why I posted this thread.

To be honest, I was secretly hoping for Chris's 600hp supercharged m3 to beat me so I can justify the jump to m3 without any hesitation. If I didn't have a sunken cost of 30k of mods on my car, I wouldn't even bother to have this discussion as m3 is definitely the way to go. But the money spent on mod is holding me back. Till today, I still regret making the choice to buy a low k 335i vs a slightly higher mileage m3 for just 10k more. I still remember how I convinced myself that 300hp is enough and I don't need 414hp!!!!
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      07-11-2014, 07:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABE92 View Post

I will appreciate if you guys with supercharger kit can chime in on any of the following or any other important deliberation that I have missed.

- is your kit causing misfiring, limp or overheating issues at the track?
- any attempt to resolve the above issues or heat soak such as meth kit or low ethanol fuel content etc.?
- any ongoing issues required to maintain or tune the kit?
- any issues with the DCT coping with the supercharger kit?
- best attempt at the drag strip such as ET and trap?
- did you replace the rod bearings as preventative maintenance measure?

Note: If you are thinking of moving to another platform, pm me as this might make it more cost effective for me to switch to m3. Happy with stock or modified m3. DCT only please

Cheers,
Alex
Hi Alex,

I haven't tracked my M3, so I wouldn't be able to comment on a S/C E9X M3's ability to deal with heat on track conditions, but i am sure there are other members that can clarify this point for you. I have driven an E92 M3 at Eastern Creek on an M-Dynamic course and it copped double stinted hot laps all day without any temp issues - granted it was a standard car, however i've experienced limp mode and/or unacceptable high temperatures in N54 engined cars as well as E46 M3s (stock vehicles again) under track conditions.

- is your kit causing misfiring, limp or overheating issues at the track?
Haven't come across any of these issues. I have an ESS VT2-575 kit, which comes with (inter-alia) larger injectors and an intercooler. When researching the ESS Kits, some people mention that the smaller kits that do not have an intercooler have experienced heat-soak after extended track sessions. You haven't specified what you do more - 1/4 mile or track days. If you do track days more than 1/4 mile stuff, a kit with an intercooler would assist on hot days and track days where they run 20 minute sessions all day. You might find that you need to make other smaller modifications, however this is largely dependent on your circumstances.

- any attempt to resolve the above issues or heat soak such as meth kit or low ethanol fuel content etc.?
No.

- any ongoing issues required to maintain or tune the kit?
Not that i am aware of. If you buy a reputable kit, they are engineered really well and behave not dissimilar to a standard car.

- any issues with the DCT coping with the supercharger kit?
Yes. I have found that the DCT software in my car is too slow for how quick the car is now. I am under the impression that the software in my car is the latest DCT software from BMW, and the shifts (up and down) are not as quick as i'd like them to be. My mechanic has a very early version of BMW DCT software in his E92 M3 with a VT2-625 kit, and the upshifts and downshifts in that are exactly what i want... so it seems like BMW have backed off the ferocity of changes as time has progressed (like the SMG software in E46 M3s). I am most likely going to get the Dinan DCT software - the reviews seem to be what i want, and it is reasonably priced.

- best attempt at the drag strip such as ET and trap?
Have not attempted.

did you replace the rod bearings as preventative maintenance measure?
No.

My opinion is that if you are into 1/4mile times more than track work, then stick to the 335i. If you are more into track work, then a shift to the M3 will be more conducive to that, and it is more than likely that you would achieve better times in the M3 with less modifications as they are over-engineered appropriately from the factory. Anyway, that's my opinion - now post some pics of your monster 335i!
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      07-11-2014, 08:57 PM   #6
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^ Liam, have you read reviews of people having done the GTS dct reflash? seems to be positive..
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      07-11-2014, 10:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajvosa
^ Liam, have you read reviews of people having done the GTS dct reflash? seems to be positive..
I agree, GTS tune reviews are all very positive, as is reviews of the BPM Sport dct tune. However reputable vendors want upwards of $700 for the pleasure. The Dinan one is around $400.

How is life without an ///M car Adin?
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      07-12-2014, 01:58 AM   #8
ABE92
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Good point LSM3! Thanks for your input. Hmm... once I manage to get a 10s pass on the drag strip, I will only participate in event like Racewars and spend most of my time at the track. As such, 10% on the strip, 90% on the track.

As for heat soak, limp mode and misfiring on the track, the cure for my car was E40 with flash map. I do not face any of these issues anymore when I trash the car on the track for like 20 minutes per session. Prior to using E40 and flash map, I will always get misfire and limp mode on the second hot lap! :P

Having said that, I have only tried low boost flash map on the track. The low boost is around 17-18psi which gives me approximately 398whp on Dyno Dynamics at Hyperdrive. It's a low reading dyno as a bone stock 2013 E92 M3 dynoed at 295whp.

Not much photos but video from Racewars 2014 is below. This is with low boost map - 398whp set up. Wish I could time travel and have another go with the new set up - 513whp . Refer to summary if you want to fast forward.

Notes:
1. Video mount issue on the first three videos. :P
2. Sound from raw videos muted due to poor sound quality and wind noise.

Summary:
BMW N54 E92 FBO Vishnu OFT Tuned with RB Turbo vs

1. BMW N55 E82 FBO COBB Tuned (00:14 to 01:07)
2. BMW N54 E92 FBO COBB Tuned (01:08 to 02:00)
3. BMW M3 V8 Stage II Gintani Supercharged (02:01 to 03:38)
4. BMW M5 V10 (03:39 to 05:26)
5. BMW M5 V10 Gintani Supercharged (05:27 to 07:00)
6. Shelby AC Cobra V8 (07:01 to 09:17)
7. Lotus Elise Supercharged (09:18 to 11:30)
8. Lotus Exige S V6 Supercharged (11:31 to 13:52)
9. Holden Commodore V8 (13:53 to 16:01)
10. Nissan GT-R R35 Tuned (16:02 to 17:34)
11. Audi RS6 V10 Bi-Turbo Tuned (17:35 to 19:36)
12. Porshe 911 Bi-Turbo Tuned (19:37 to 22:22)

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