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[Victory Road]

Originally Posted by crimsone90

HREs weight about 25lb F and 27lb rear. Not light at all. Stronger than VMR no doubt. You cannot compare a $5k wheel to $1K wheel. If you want light wheels for your M get a set new RAC RG63, Volk TE37, even the Advan RS or you can go rare with a set of NEEZ QD7 or MORR VS8. These are the only wheels worth buying..

Can I also add to the list Alloy Technic B9 and Mesh

[crimsone90]

Originally Posted by frank@wheelsto

See post above. Your wheel weights are for 20". If your buying 20" weight isn't really a concern anyways.

19" weight about 23-25. I stand corrected. Still a few pounds higher than the rest. Not prestige at all.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by frank@wheelsto

Can I also add to the list Alloy Technic B9 and Mesh

Alloy Technic forged monoblocks are made from rotory forged blanks (not the same quality as the other brands), so he'd probably say no...

[crimsone90]

Originally Posted by frank@wheelsto

Can I also add to the list Alloy Technic B9 and Mesh

Alloy Technic claims their wheels are 8000 TON when they are in fact rotary forged. Honestly is key in this business.

[SV Concepts III]

Can't speak highly enough about the quality and price point. These wheels are an excellent choice and have been our bestseller for 5 years for a reason.

[Tech1_Mike]

Originally Posted by crimsone90

Alloy Technic claims their wheels are 8000 TON when they are in fact rotary forged. Honestly is key in this business.

Apparently, so is spelling.
I am VP of the forging company who makes the Alloy Technic brand.
The wheels are indeed rotary forged using a 10,000 ton rotary forging machine.
The press, built by our company and in service since 1996, uses two gigantic rotating discs canted at 5 degrees from horizontal.
This concentrates the 10,000 tons of force in a smaller area, “working” or “forging” the metal to a much greater degree than conventional presses.
The forgings are then flow-formed on the largest CNC spinning machine in North America, further “working” the material under millions of pounds of force.
The result are wheels with mechanical properties some 15 to 30 percent higher than conventional 6061 T6 forgings.
This technology, combined with our exotic heat-treat processes, is what makes our wheels so strong and lightweight.
More than 50% of our forgings are used for military and aerospace applications and 75% of European tuners use our forgings exclusively for their forged product.
Over the past decade, we have produced more than 1 million forged wheels, without a single operational failure or failure in service.
This includes all the forged wheels for the Dodge Viper program, the forged wheels for the Chevrolet Corvette, and all the forged wheels bearing the Roush brand.
Your suggestion that rotary forgings are somehow inferior to "conventional" forgings is misguided, inappropriate, and ignorant.
I seriously challenge your self-proclaimed "expert" status.

Mike Burroughs
Advanced Structural Alloys, LLC

[crimsone90]

Originally Posted by Tech1_Mike

Apparently, so is spelling.
I am VP of the forging company who makes the Alloy Technic brand.
The wheels are indeed rotary forged using a 10,000 ton rotary forging machine.
The press, built by our company and in service since 1996, uses two gigantic rotating discs canted at 5 degrees from horizontal.
This concentrates the 10,000 tons of force in a smaller area, “working” or “forging” the metal to a much greater degree than conventional presses.
The forgings are then flow-formed on the largest CNC spinning machine in North America, further “working” the material under millions of pounds of force.
The result are wheels with mechanical properties some 15 to 30 percent higher than conventional 6061 T6 forgings.
This technology, combined with our exotic heat-treat processes, is what makes our wheels so strong and lightweight.
More than 50% of our forgings are used for military and aerospace applications and 75% of European tuners use our forgings exclusively for their forged product.
Over the past decade, we have produced more than 1 million forged wheels, without a single operational failure or failure in service.
This includes all the forged wheels for the Dodge Viper program, the forged wheels for the Chevrolet Corvette, and all the forged wheels bearing the Roush brand.
Your suggestion that rotary forgings are somehow inferior to "conventional" forgings is misguided, inappropriate, and ignorant.
I seriously challenge your self-proclaimed "expert" status.

Mike Burroughs
Advanced Structural Alloys, LLC

Defensive and very unprofessional response.

AMT makes Alloy Technic. Is AMT still operating? I was under the impression the bank close their doors recently.

"The result are wheels with mechanical properties some 15 to 30 percent higher than conventional 6061 T6 forgings"

Do you have any data to prove this? Or is this based on speculation?

APP forgings are also used for aerospace use and that does not impress me. Better wheels have been made from forgings that are exclusively made for automotive wheels. Also you do not source 75% of the "European Tuners" unless you believe there is only 2 or 3 european tuners. I know where the majority of them source their products and very few, probably less than 10% source their products from the US, even less from AMT.

I never suggested rotary forging to be inferior. I prefer rotary forging on a wheel when done right instead of press forging since the grain structure is aligned in an optimal direction for automotive wheel applications. You might want to direct your anger to Le Mans Blue, not me.

I recommend sticking to manufacturing wheels and stop making your own brands and trying to market them through Peter since doing both has not been proven to be too effective has it? Don't have your distributors market wheels that are rotary forged as 8000TON press forged. Bad marketing. Is unprofessional, unethical and not too smart. Creating your own brands to create competition to your own customers (private label) is also very dumb. Bad business practices.

For your knowledge AMT does not have 1-million wheels without a single operational failure. Remember that 24" wheel you designed for an SUV that they all had a complete structural failure? Perhaps your need to upgrade your 10-year old FEA station and conduct proper testing to all the wheels that you make.

You might not know who I am but I know who you are so don't play smart with me.

[Tech1_Mike]

Originally Posted by crimsone90

Defensive and very unprofessional response.

AMT makes Alloy Technic. Is AMT still operating? I was under the impression the bank close their doors recently.

"The result are wheels with mechanical properties some 15 to 30 percent higher than conventional 6061 T6 forgings"

Do you have any data to prove this? Or is this based on speculation?

APP forgings are also used for aerospace use and that does not impress me. Better wheels have been made from forgings that are exclusively made for automotive wheels. Also you do not source 75% of the "European Tuners" unless you believe there is only 2 or 3 european tuners. I know where the majority of them source their products and very few, probably less than 10% source their products from the US, even less from AMT.

I never suggested rotary forging to be inferior. I prefer rotary forging on a wheel when done right instead of press forging since the grain structure is aligned in an optimal direction for automotive wheel applications. You might want to direct your anger to Le Mans Blue, not me.

I recommend sticking to manufacturing wheels and stop making your own brands and trying to market them through Peter since doing both has not been proven to be too effective has it? Don't have your distributors market wheels that are rotary forged as 8000TON press forged. Bad marketing. Is unprofessional, unethical and not too smart. Creating your own brands to create competition to your own customers (private label) is also very dumb. Bad business practices.

For your knowledge AMT does not have 1-million wheels without a single operational failure. Remember that 24" wheel you designed for an SUV that they all had a complete structural failure? Perhaps your need to upgrade your 10-year old FEA station and conduct proper testing to all the wheels that you make.

You might not know who I am but I know who you are so don't play smart with me.

Your glittering generalities are pathetic and transparent. Our company is financially strong and backed by two of California's largest investment banking firms.
I chimed in because YOU suggested that Peter Lee was being dishonest and that rotary forging somehow didn't measure up.
Read your own quote. He was correct. He just didn't have the tonnage right.
Now you suggest, MR. EXPERT, that you actually prefer rotary forging.
Well, MR. EXPERT, which is it?

Our rotary forging technology is the finest in the world. We currently have 12 European tuners using our forgings with more added every month.
Our forgings are trusted by the US Government and its defense and aerospace suppliers.
Professionals who risk their lives and go in harm's way know who we are and the quality we provide.
And our forgings routinely pass the stringent standards of TUV and JWL.

You, on the other hand, prefer to remain anonymous, and criticize others about something that you obviously know very little about.

I dare you to call me.

Mike Burroughs
816/588-3153

[m3caliber]

They are great and great products!!!

[Technic]

That was some major league online bickering...

[Bob86GN]

I have a set and the weights to balance them were within 10% of the weight needed to balance my stock 19s. I think they look good and are prefect for my all seasons.

[rzm3]

Let's get back on topic guys.

For wheels, most of the time, you get what you paid for. $1k VMR wheels will come with $1k quality, $5k wheels will come with higher quality than $1k wheels, though not necessarily $5k quality wheels... I guess this could be called the 'law of diminishing return'. As you so higher up in design, performance, and quality, you may have to pay a lot to get something that is a little better.

And to those who posted above me, I agree that HRE is probably not the best wheels technically, but they do offer beautiful designs and very, very good marketing....

Anyway, I bought a set of VMR CSL late last year and the paint cracked after 2 weeks. VMR was very professional in trying to replace the wheels for me, but after weeks of waiting they sent me the wrong offset... at which time I decided to return everything (the front wheels also had a balancing issue). I wasted a few hundred dollars (mount and balance/shipping/packaging) and weeks of downtime on my car.

Just thought to share my experience.

There's more discussion here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111309

[crimsone90]

Originally Posted by Tech1_Mike

I chimed in because YOU suggested that Peter Lee was being dishonest and that rotary forging somehow didn't measure up.
Read your own quote. He was correct. He just didn't have the tonnage right.
Now you suggest, MR. EXPERT, that you actually prefer rotary forging.
Well, MR. EXPERT, which is it?

Mr. Defensive,

Read below. As Posted by WheelSTO:

We are proud to present the M3Post members with the Alloy Technic Lightweight Monoforged B9 wheels for BMW.
Alloy Technic B9 wheels are specific to the BMW marque. They are 8000 ton Forged using 6000 series and strengthened with T6 treatment.

Alloys Technic are NOT 8000 TON forged. They are Rotary forged. PERIOD.

Also your business ethics are more than improper. Learn some professionalism. You could actually have a very educative argument without recurring to insults. Don't get offended because there are people out there that know about wheels. You are not the only one

PM if you are in the mood for a proper discussion of this topic. Now back to topic.

[Tech1_Mike]

Originally Posted by crimsone90

Mr. Defensive,

Read below. As Posted by WheelSTO:

We are proud to present the M3Post members with the Alloy Technic Lightweight Monoforged B9 wheels for BMW.
Alloy Technic B9 wheels are specific to the BMW marque. They are 8000 ton Forged using 6000 series and strengthened with T6 treatment.

Alloys Technic are NOT 8000 TON forged. They are Rotary forged. PERIOD.

Also your business ethics are more than improper. Learn some professionalism. You could actually have a very educative argument without recurring to insults. Don't get offended because there are people out there that know about wheels. You are not the only one

PM if you are in the mood for a proper discussion of this topic. Now back to topic.

This discussion isn't about ethics. Its about technical accuracy.
You accused Peter Lee of dishonesty.
Peter only had the tonnage wrong. They are not 8000 ton forged,
THEY ARE 10,000 TON FORGED.
You seem to insist on drawing some negative distinction regarding rotary forging when in fact it is nearly always superior to conventional forging.
This is because the material is worked harder during the forging process.
The word "Forge" comes from the Latin word meaning "to hammer".
Early blacksmiths learned the benefits of working metal and the Japanese sword smiths perfected it.

Please stop by our plant in Oxnard and I will take you on a real forging tour you will never forget. And you can see first hand the many Tuners who trust in our technology.

Please accept my apology for going off topic.

[crimsone90]

Originally Posted by Tech1_Mike

This discussion isn't about ethics. Its about technical accuracy.
You accused Peter Lee of dishonesty.
Peter only had the tonnage wrong. They are not 8000 ton forged,
THEY ARE 10,000 TON FORGED.
You seem to insist on drawing some negative distinction regarding rotary forging when in fact it is nearly always superior to conventional forging.
This is because the material is worked harder during the forging process.
The word "Forge" comes from the Latin word meaning "to hammer".
Early blacksmiths learned the benefits of working metal and the Japanese sword smiths perfected it.

Please stop by our plant in Oxnard and I will take you on a real forging tour you will never forget. And you can see first hand the many Tuners who trust in our technology.

Please accept my apology for going off topic.

I never accused Peter of dishonesty. If I did please feel free to quote me.

[Tech1_Mike]

Originally Posted by crimsone90

Alloy Technic claims their wheels are 8000 TON when they are in fact rotary forged. Honestly is key in this business.

Consider yourself quoted.

[crimsone90]

Originally Posted by Tech1_Mike

Consider yourself quoted.

And that quote means rotary forged is inferior to 8000TON?

[Tech1_Mike]

Originally Posted by crimsone90

I never accused Peter of dishonesty. If I did please feel free to quote me.

I quoted you. It seemed as though you were saying that Alloy Technic was guilty of some sort of deception. In fact, they were conservative.
If i overreacted, please accept my apology.

I am not in the habit of getting involved in these sorts of things.
I chimed in because I felt Alloy technics was getting a raw deal and was being accused of dishonesty. I tried to clarify the processes and technology we use to make wheels. I sincerely felt as though the whole concept of rotary forging was being disparaged, when it is actually superior technology.
Lastly, I often see forging pressure (i.e. 8000 Ton) bandied about as some sort of "credential" to qualify a wheel company. in fact, forging pressure only plays a small part in determining the tensile strength, ductility, elasticity and most other metallurgical properties in an alloy. In truth, the alloy itself and heat treating are FAR more important.
In truth, the Alloy Technic line is well engineered, very strong and very light. The wheels are precisely weight optimized for the application.
And Peter Lee is a highly respected professional who would never attempt to deceive anyone, least of all a forum with this many really smart members.

[bigjae1976]

I have had 2 sets of VMR wheels.

My only complaint is that the finish is not exactly flawless. There was some debris in the paint and some paint runs on the backside. These were very minor flaws that I noticed when I was applying wheel wax, nothing major and nothing really visible when the rim is on the car.

These wheels do take some abuse. I've ran over truck tires and pot holes from the northeast and I've never had an issue. I did bend one rim from running over a brick at 80mph which would have bent most other rims. I made it another 40 miles home and it was the crappy goodyear tire that gave out, not the rim. The bend was pretty minor and was temporarily fixed with some bead sealer. The hard part was deciding whether to pay $125 to have it fixed or just spend $175 to get a new rim.

If you are looking for an ultra-light weight wheel using the new nano-tech-atomic-fusion-forging technique or if you have a $5k budget, then VMR is not the way to go.

If you are looking for a good looking, quality wheel on a budget, then VMR is definitely worth considering.

[H Bomb]

i wanted a black wheel bc i think it will look great with my color car, sparkling graphite. i like the look of the black VMR 710 wheel. no offense to anyone here who had HRE's but i just think there is nothing special about them and would never spend 5k on them. i am not cheap either so that is not why i am saying that. i have had the Dinan wheels and BBS LM's on my past M's. i just wanted a different look and something in black. so far i haven't found any really light wheels in black, so i figured i could use these till i find a lighter set

i guess i just wanted to know if anyone that had them was able to tell a difference in performance btw them and the stock 19's?? i am just not a fan of how the stock 19's look

thanks for all that chimed in. i guess i have to think about it. i like the Breyton GTS-R as it is light and has a nice look but it doesn't come in black only the reg GTS. then i missed the RAC group buy bc i just got my car and never knew about it, and i am not paying 1k more then they paid as someone posted that is what he would ask. for that i would just buy a set of neez wheels as i can get them for 4k. any volk i have seen i didn't like unless they made a new one i am not aware of.

anyway thanks again

H

[cotenseto]

I bought a set of used VMR 710s but they don't have centercaps. Will the caps from the OEM 19"s fit in there? Is there a vendor where can I buy VMR 710 centercaps?

[PYSpeed.com]

Originally Posted by cotenseto

I bought a set of used VMR 710s but they don't have centercaps. Will the caps from the OEM 19"s fit in there? Is there a vendor where can I buy VMR 710 centercaps?

Hi cotenseto,

Just email me your address (eric@pyspeed.com), we'll take care the VMR center caps for you.

Eric =)
PYSpeed.com