M3 Beats Out RS5 and CTS-V Coupe in C&D Shootout

[MonteCarloM3]

Originally Posted by M3 vert

Check this out mr audi

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a car and driver comparison...wow, tough find. you could put an m3 up against a veyron and they would still pick the m3.

[erio]

Originally Posted by M3 vert

True I respect that but you cant argue with this either folks, not C&D but Motortrend

I honestly think this shows how good our M3s really are

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Wow....this is certainly new. Nice find. Motortrend agrees. I thought C+D would have this review online first.

[M3 vert]

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

a car and driver comparison...wow, tough find. you could put an m3 up against a veyron and they would still pick the m3.

Your ignorance really amazes me...but not just C&D

Have a look...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413025

And the fact remains that its the true benchmark...go sell your M3, what are you still doing here

[MonteCarloM3]

Originally Posted by M3 vert

And the fact remains that its the true benchmark...go sell your M3, what are you still doing here

can't handle some criticism?

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by footie

And yet the R8 was voted 'Performance Car of the Year' and the M3 hasn't. The steering feel of the R8 is far superior to that of the M3 and how anyone could claim different is beyond me.

You are diverting. Typical. The point was "enjoyable", not more stable, not better steering feel, not anything else. Neither I nor anyone else is claiming the M3 is an outright "better" sports car than the R8. Keep it on topic, please.

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

OMG, you're comparing an M3 to the GT-R. Sorry, the nissan blows the M3 out of the water in every comparison. As soon as there is a faster car than the M3, the bimmer fans say it doesn't "feel" as good and crap like that.

No, please read. I am not comparing the M3 vs. the GT-R right now. I've done plenty of that in the past and certainly there is no debate about which wins every performance contest hands down. My point was simply that there was a great deal of discussion here in the past about the sterility and non-excitement of driving the GT-R even at limit. That can be a good thing or a bad thing, perhaps even some of each. There has been a major publication that did rate the M3 higher than the GT-R in a direct comparision test. Much of that came down to the fun to drive factor, interior space and acoustics. Not exactly my most important performance metrics but we are not talking about my personal choices either.

So in short all I was doing was comparing some of the inherent characteristics of AWD to make the point that it seems to often very negatively affect the fun factor, RS5, GT-R, R8, etc. All great cars but all carry the negative of AWD (and of course the positives as well).

[footie]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Come'on now... forget about the R8. You got nothing to say about the RS5, now that we are finally seeing it in action? You must be so pissed at your 'sources' or at the very least, dissapointed with RS5's performance given your high excpectations not so long ago? Tis, tis....

Yes, very disappointed with the figures being produced.

No, not surprised the M3 is still getting the vote, though this is but a few tests and I am sure (like you probably are) that the RS5 will win it's share of battles.

[kaykay]

The C&D M3 vs. GTR vs. 911TT was pretty impressive even though we all know they LOVE and favor the M3.

But they love the M3 for a reason...

Test after test, article after article and comparo after camparo... It's just a perfectly tuned car, or as close as you can get to one for it's intended purpose.

[Archon]

Originally Posted by footie

Yes, very disappointed with the figures being produced.

No, not surprised the M3 is still getting the vote, though this is but a few tests and I am sure (like you probably are) that the RS5 will win it's share of battles.

well well well, look what the cat dragged back in.

I do recall mentioning the reviews for the RS5 have been mixed. In fact in every case I saw in the UK reviews, when the M3 was mentioned in the RS5 review...none of the testers choose the RS5 over the M3....NONE.

And yet you said let's wait until the comparos come out and we'll see who comes out on top with a wink and a smile.

The RS5 lost in one of the most respected mags in Germany and now lost in C&D...in fact 3rd in C&D.

I'm not sure what battles you hope it will win...Sportauto, Evo, Top Gear, C&D, etc. Which one said out right, the RS5 is clearly the car over the M3? Are you waiting for 4X4 magazine to chime in on their annual Thunder down under test in a down pour rain issue?

You're so quick to say I told you so...my inside sources (cough cough...internet) are always right.

If they are always right....why can't you say you're wrong in this glaring amount of data?

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by swamp2

You are diverting. Typical. The point was "enjoyable", not more stable, not better steering feel, not anything else. Neither I nor anyone else is claiming the M3 is an outright "better" sports car than the R8. Keep it on topic, please.

Then why all the videos showing that it "wins" if it's not a competition? Anytime anyone has the audacity to even suggest that there might be a better car all of the comparison "tests" come out.

I will say, it strikes me as odd that no one has any issue with someone saying they're moving on to a P-car, even though the video above ranked it last, two spots behind the M3 so it MUST be inferior, but if someone says they want to move on to an Audi they're uneducated buffoons. Elitist hypocrisy anyone?

I mean really, who cares? If someone prefers Audi, they prefer Audi. If they prefer Porsche, they prefer Porsche. If they want to drive the piss out of a Skoda, who are we to judge them for THEIR preferences?

[ss134]

Here is 'Car's video test of the RS5 in the UK and also Evo's write up............both seem to prefer the M3..........i will reserve final judgement until i drive an RS5 ............maybe every review i have read/seen from different countries are all wrong ...

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...s_new_rs5.html

[BMW269]

Whatever is the "better" car, the RS5 has not done to the M3 what the RS6 has done to the M5. This is fact. Audi just needed to put two turbos on the engine. Without the two turbos the RS6 would be nothing. Without the two turbos, the RS5 is nothing (performance wise).


Audi made a mistake. And what, everybody does mistakes. But they just must be admited. Something that BMW does: for example they admit it is not a nice thing to leave R8 V10 and SLS AMG without rival.

M3: NA + 6MT + RWD = WIN
RS5: FI + DSG + AWD = WIN (but not the case because not FI)

[quality_sound]

I agree with most of what you said but I think it's the Quattro system that's it's Achille's heel. The only thing I saw in the MT video that they didn't like was the driver disconnect. This is something I've felt in every Audi or VW with 4Motion I've ever driven. I bet if they went to a RWD setup on the RS5 they'd be about dead even.

It does say something that about the M3 that it has taken another company this long to get close to the M3 and Audi still needs a little work to get quite up to the bar though.

In the end I think they're really built for different purposes and buyers.

M3 is more of a track car and the RS5 is more a true GT.

[BMW269]

BMW has cheated. M did not say anything, but secretly the M3 LCI has a power bump. We know what would have been the consequences if this was made officially. M tuned the ECU, M3 LCI has 440 PS and 420 Nm instead of 420 PS and 400 Nm. This explains better accelerations for M3 LCI, and also why the M3 ZCP DCT runs the N-Ring under 8:00 min (with sport tires). I do not know if the ECU tune is for all M3 LCI or only M3 ZCP.

Thumbs up BMW M!

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by M3 vert

Check this out mr audi

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and i love the lemans blue

[footie]

Originally Posted by Archon

well well well, look what the cat dragged back in.

Never went away, was forced to sit at the sidelines. Clearly the powers above felt that any argument that might suggest BMW aren't the greatest thing since sliced pan was more than they could take. BMW product brilliant products but people are delusional if they think they are so how better than the rest, they are only different.

Originally Posted by Archon

I do recall mentioning the reviews for the RS5 have been mixed. In fact in every case I saw in the UK reviews, when the M3 was mentioned in the RS5 review...none of the testers choose the RS5 over the M3....NONE.

And yet you said let's wait until the comparos come out and we'll see who comes out on top with a wink and a smile.

The RS5 lost in one of the most respected mags in Germany and now lost in C&D...in fact 3rd in C&D.

I'm not sure what battles you hope it will win...Sportauto, Evo, Top Gear, C&D, etc. Which one said out right, the RS5 is clearly the car over the M3? Are you waiting for 4X4 magazine to chime in on their annual Thunder down under test in a down pour rain issue?

I am openly admitting here that the results so far haven't matched what I have been told on good authority, why this is the case I honestly don't know but one thing is clearly, the wrong engine choice was made as many of us voiced at the time.

Originally Posted by Archon

You're so quick to say I told you so...my inside sources (cough cough...internet) are always right.

If they are always right....why can't you say you're wrong in this glaring amount of data?

May I suggest you wait this one out before jumping to that conclusion.

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by erio

Wow....this is certainly new. Nice find. Motortrend agrees. I thought C+D would have this review online first.

i love the sound of the M3 engine. what a car

[Rshane]

Originally Posted by Levi

BMW has cheated. M did not say anything, but secretly the M3 LCI has a power bump. We know what would have been the consequences if this was made officially. M tuned the ECU, M3 LCI has 440 PS and 420 Nm instead of 420 PS and 400 Nm. This explains better accelerations for M3 LCI, and also why the M3 ZCP DCT runs the N-Ring under 8:00 min (with sport tires). I do not know if the ECU tune is for all M3 LCI or only M3 ZCP.

Thumbs up BMW M!

Where did you hear this? Just curious since mine will be built in Sep 2010 with the ZCP with DCT package.

[drivendriver]

Originally Posted by footie

May I suggest you wait this one out before jumping to that conclusion.

Wait for what? More "inside" information that you can't share with us just yet?

Come on footie...

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

i guess i'm only stirring up trouble on an m3 board with these statements but they are the truth and that is always trouble.

It's not so much that you are stirring up trouble, its just that you choose an interesting time to get your digs in against your M3. To say the least it gives the appearance of being two-faced, especially when the worst thing you can say against the M3 is its a "dude-magnet". WTF, who the hell cares? If the M3 is a dude magnet a Ferrari 458 or Pagani Zonda is a dude black hole. Now, is that really a reason to snub the cars?

[footie]

Originally Posted by drivendriver

Wait for what? More "inside" information that you can't share with us just yet?

Come on footie...

No, what I meant was there will be additional reviews placing the RS5 in front. Something I always claimed was that the M3 will win some and the RS5 will win some. Different people will come to different opinions as to which is better.

Regarding 'insider' information, sorry mate but I pick and chose who I share with and base that decision on whether they are of use back, you don't fall into that catergory.

[MonteCarloM3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It's not so much that you are stirring up trouble, its just that you choose an interesting time to get your digs in against your M3. To say the least it gives the appearance of being two-faced, especially when the worst thing you can say against the M3 is its a "dude-magnet". WTF, who the hell cares? If the M3 is a dude magnet a Ferrari 458 or Pagani Zonda is a dude black hole. Now, is that really a reason to snub the cars?

actually i stated i like the engine/transmission of the RS 4 better as well. i have problems with both the RS 4 and the M3, but i like the M3 a little bit less overall. it's no big deal, just want to bring some balance here to the board as I don't think the M3 is the best car ever made although it has lived up to my boyhood expectations.
as an aside, still perplexed why bmw hasn't answered audi's call for a supercar similar to the R8 V8/V10. maybe one is in the works?
if i felt like blowing more cash i would just have gone for the r8V10, maybe in a couple more years.

edit: i was an initial big fan of the S5 before it's release. i figured by looks alone it would be an amazing driving machine. boy was i wrong. it felt huge, handled poorly and transmission was sub par. hoping the RS version has done away with that but maybe not. the S5 felt bigger and heaving than my RS 4 with much less power. fingers still crossed. if the RS5 can out-do the RS4 then they will have a big winner imo, but that will be a hard car to best.

[footie]

Originally Posted by MonteCarloM3

edit: i was an initial big fan of the S5 before it's release. i figured by looks alone it would be an amazing driving machine. boy was i wrong. it felt huge, handled poorly and transmission was sub par. hoping the RS version has done away with that but maybe not. the S5 felt bigger and heaving than my RS 4 with much less power. fingers still crossed. if the RS5 can out-do the RS4 then they will have a big winner imo, but that will be a hard car to best.

If you felt the S5 felt huge compared to your RS4 then I think you will be disappointed with the RS5.

There are areas of improvement like the transmission and suspension, overall balance and outright grip but it's a much more polished experience than the RS4 offered. It's a similar outcome to a E46 vs E92 M3 comparison, you gain in some areas but lose out in others.