Full bolt on or supercharger?!

[yeah_knee]

So picked up an e92 m3.. doing the infamous rod bearings replacement soon ... and after that ... debating

I'm actually happy with the stock power ... but it could use a littttttllllleeeee more

Do I go full bolt on and tune and add a decent 40-50 HP To the wheel ( probably $$3.5 k total) ... that would actually put me at a perfect power for street use

Or do I go insane and do the ess supercharger 625 kit (about $9k ) ... now honestly you wouldn't even be able to use all the power here but the thought of having it is what makes it so fun hahhahha

Right now leaning towards doing a couple full bolt ons with a tune

What u think

[pbonsalb]

You have not had the car long enough to know what you want from it. If you buy a tune and pulley and intake, you will be removing it all if you change you mind and buy a supercharger. I’d wait to decide whether you want a little more or a lot more power. I have all the bolt on mods and think they add 10-15% power, which is definitely noticeable and makes the car entertaining enough for a comfortable cruiser to me. I have a turbo 99 E36M3 that is much faster. I drove my 08 E90M3 stock for about 2 years and then modded it over the next 2 years and have driven it another 3 years and still like it. Cost for me was a factor. I bought my mods mostly used and installed most myself, and spent about $3k. I am thinking about a supercharger now, but it took me a while to get there.

One thing that may make a difference is that I have a 6MT car so I have something to do while driving. If I had a DCT and all I could do to entertain myself was put my foot down, I’d probably get bored much sooner.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by yeah_knee

So picked up an e92 m3.. doing the infamous rod bearings replacement soon ... and after that ... debating

I'm actually happy with the stock power ... but it could use a littttttllllleeeee more

Do I go full bolt on and tune and add a decent 40-50 HP To the wheel ( probably $$3.5 k total) ... that would actually put me at a perfect power for street use

Or do I go insane and do the ess supercharger 625 kit (about $9k ) ... now honestly you wouldn't even be able to use all the power here but the thought of having it is what makes it so fun hahhahha

Right now leaning towards doing a couple full bolt ons with a tune

What u think

Don't know that you'll get 40-50hp with bolt ons. I went that route first, and it can get fairly expensive for marginal gains. You could easily do a 550 kit for about $6k which really isn't that much more than you'd spend adding multiple bolt on mods. Just my two cents.

I love my SC and would never go back. Very streetable.

[EJT86]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Don't know that you'll get 40-50hp with bolt ons. I went that route first, and it can get fairly expensive for marginal gains. You could easily do a 550 kit for about $6k which really isn't that much more than you'd spend adding multiple bolt on mods. Just my two cents.

I love my SC and would never go back. Very streetable.

Catless plus others will make that much power. OP should fully bolt on a stroker instead

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Don't know that you'll get 40-50hp with bolt ons. I went that route first, and it can get fairly expensive for marginal gains. You could easily do a 550 kit for about $6k which really isn't that much more than you'd spend adding multiple bolt on mods. Just my two cents.

I love my SC and would never go back. Very streetable.

A non intercooled SC just seems like asking for trouble IMO.

I have owned 3 e9x over the years and Im having the same problem deciding as the OP. I already have full akra and just got a tune. Car is fun and spirited but not fast. Will an SC ruin the sweet NA feel? Im not sure as I have driven an SC e92 but not owned one with enough seat time to make a judgement.

A 625kit is relatively cheap these days and the car would pick up some nice power but at the same time it still wont be “fast” by todays standards. FBO M4s will still give you problems for example.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Don't know that you'll get 40-50hp with bolt ons. I went that route first, and it can get fairly expensive for marginal gains. You could easily do a 550 kit for about $6k which really isn't that much more than you'd spend adding multiple bolt on mods. Just my two cents.

I love my SC and would never go back. Very streetable.

You can get 10% rwhp with bolt on mods, which is about 35 rwhp on most cars. 15% is tougher but some have done it. The pump gas record is right around 400 rwhp SAE on a Dynojet. Very few hit 400. Most end up in the 375-395 rwhp range. The variation is in part because these cars seem to vary in base line dynos. Typical is around 345 rwhp. The best ever on a Dynojet in SAE was 361.

A nonintercooled system adds only 4-5 psi and is fine for a street driven car in a cooler area. The upgrade to intercooled is expensive so the OP should consider that as he decides how much power he wants. You can spend $1k on a tune or $10k on an ESS VT650 so there is a range for any budget but try to think ahead do you don’t backtrack and end up spending more in the long run.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

You can get 10% rwhp with bolt on mods, which is about 35 rwhp on most cars. 15% is tougher but some have done it. The pump gas record is right around 400 rwhp SAE on a Dynojet. Very few hit 400. Most end up in the 375-395 rwhp range. The variation is in part because these cars seem to vary in base line dynos. Typical is around 345 rwhp. The best ever on a Dynojet in SAE was 361.

A nonintercooled system adds only 4-5 psi and is fine for a street driven car in a cooler area. The upgrade to intercooled is expensive so the OP should consider that as he decides how much power he wants. You can spend $1k on a tune or $10k on an ESS VT650 so there is a range for any budget but try to think ahead do you don’t backtrack and end up spending more in the long run.

Ess has changes thier pricing on the new sc kits. Not sure everyone knows this as the used market has not adjusted.

On the site a non cooled 550 is $6795 and a cooled 595 is $6995. 625 is right at 8k.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by dmk08

A non intercooled SC just seems like asking for trouble IMO.

Why? These kits have been around for nearly a decade and thousands have been sold. There's no need to make projections based on what "seems" true when we have plenty of facts, evidence, and experience to go off of. Extensive testing has been performed and virtually nobody has reported trouble over the years.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702956

Originally Posted by dmk08

I have owned 3 e9x over the years and Im having the same problem deciding as the OP. I already have full akra and just got a tune. Car is fun and spirited but not fast. Will an SC ruin the sweet NA feel?

No. The powerband is the same as NA with a centri supercharger kit. Just more power across the board, particularly above 6k.

Originally Posted by dmk08

A 625kit is relatively cheap these days and the car would pick up some nice power but at the same time it still wont be “fast” by todays standards. FBO M4s will still give you problems for example.

What gives you that idea? Plenty of videos on Youtube show that a FBO M4 is pretty evenly matched with a ESS 625 E9x. Check out some of Longboarder's airstrip videos and watch him destroy basically everything out there short of hyper cars with his ESS 650.
https://www.youtube.com/user/longboarder949/videos

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

You have not had the car long enough to know what you want from it. If you buy a tune and pulley and intake, you will be removing it all if you change you mind and buy a supercharger.

Exactly. All of the bolt on mods other than exhaust are a waste of money if you end up being hungry for more power. Which you most likely will be after a measly 10% gain. If you're looking for a cost effective power gain, 550 kits go for $4k used. Then add a tune and you're up to $5k for +130hp. Much better value than getting 30-40hp for $3-4k. If you spend $8k on a brand new 625 kit, you gain nearly 200hp and will have more power than almost everything you will encounter on the street.

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

One thing that may make a difference is that I have a 6MT car so I have something to do while driving. If I had a DCT and all I could do to entertain myself was put my foot down, I’d probably get bored much sooner.

Also true .

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Why? These kits have been around for nearly a decade and thousands have been sold. There's no need to make projections based on what "seems" true when we have plenty of facts, evidence, and experience to go off of. Extensive testing has been performed and virtually nobody has reported trouble over the years.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702956



No. The powerband is the same as NA with a centri supercharger kit. Just more power across the board, particularly above 6k.



What gives you that idea? Plenty of videos on Youtube show that a FBO M4 is pretty evenly matched with a ESS 625 E9x. Check out some of Longboarder's airstrip videos and watch him destroy basically everything out there short of hyper cars with his ESS 650.
https://www.youtube.com/user/longboarder949/videos



Exactly. All of the bolt on mods other than exhaust are a waste of money if you end up being hungry for more power. Which you most likely will be after a measly 10% gain. If you're looking for a cost effective power gain, 550 kits go for $4k used. Then add a tune and you're up to $5k for +130hp. Much better value than getting 30-40hp for $3-4k. If you spend $8k on a brand new 625 kit, you gain nearly 200hp and will have more power than almost everything you will encounter on the street.



Also true .

Heat soaking in the Bay Area vs heat soaking in Georgia is probably quite different. You dont see anyone run non-cooled blowers around here.

Good to know on the powerband.

I owned an FBO F82 and raced multiple 625 cars. Thats what gave me the impression. M4 tuning has taken some big leaps lately. They can run full E85 on the stock fuel system.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Heat soaking in the Bay Area vs heat soaking in Georgia is probably quite different. You dont see anyone run non-cooled blowers around here.

R&D for the ESS kit predominantly took place in Arizona.

Originally Posted by dmk08

I owned an FBO F82 and raced multiple 625 cars. Thats what gave me the impression. M4 tuning has taken some big leaps lately. They can run full E85 on the stock fuel system.

Must have been slow drivers.

[opihi5]

If you have the money to supercharge why wouldn’t you do it??
The m3 is a complete beast when supercharged...but don’t go ESS I would say gintani or vf

[JohnEastvold]

just get a supercharger. i was FBO on E85 and it was fun. cars that had around 380-420whp i would beat. anything more i couldnt. ull eventually want more power so then the 3-4k you spent going fbo you could have saved to go to a supercharger (i got a vf620 for 5k used with a custom front heat exchanger) and runs great, i make 584/420 to the wheel on E85 on 7 psi. the money is better spent going boosted. going 9 then 11 psi next. just upping it in stages to see how the car adapts to it.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

R&D for the ESS kit predominantly took place in Arizona.



Must have been slow drivers.

Thanks for showing me two videos of JB4 cars which are slower than BM3 cars which are slower than BM3 E85 cars. BM3 wasn't even out yet when these videos took place. BTW read my original post I said "give you problems" not "eat your lunch".

Im not sure how familiar you are with Arizona and Georgia but they are nothing alike in terms of climate.

opihi5 VF? Yeeeouch.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by opihi5

If you have the money to supercharge why wouldn’t you do it??
The m3 is a complete beast when supercharged...but don’t go ESS I would say gintani or vf

The VF kit is nearly identical to ESS but uses an inferior supercharger bracket design and requires you to cut off a mounting point for the factory airbox. Not to mention the intake manifold is ugly and bulbous compared to ESS. I have nothing to say about Gintani because I haven't seen anyone mention that kit in like 5 years. It's the same Vortech blower so I'm sure the end result would be the same, but ESS has sold (by far) the most kits and is basically the default option when considering a supercharger kit for an E9x. Tried and true.

The decision should be between ESS and Harrop, depending on which style blower you want. Or AA/Evolve if you are ok with hacking up your front clip to mount an air to air intercooler and want a Rotrex blower.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

The VF kit is nearly identical to ESS but uses an inferior supercharger bracket design and requires you to cut off a mounting point for the factory airbox. Not to mention the intake manifold is ugly and bulbous compared to ESS. I have nothing to say about Gintani because I haven't seen anyone mention that kit in like 5 years. It's the same Vortech blower so I'm sure the end result would be the same, but ESS has sold (by far) the most kits and is basically the default option when considering a supercharger kit for an E9x. Tried and true.

The decision should be between ESS and Harrop, depending on which style blower you want. Or AA/Evolve if you are ok with hacking up your front clip to mount an air to air intercooler and want a Rotrex blower.

We definitely agree here. ESS / Haroop or nothing. VF sold an inferior SC kit and now an inferior tuning platform for the F series.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Thanks for showing me two videos of JB4 cars which are slower than BM3 cars which are slower than BM3 E85 cars. BM3 wasn't even out yet when these videos took place. BTW read my original post I said "give you problems" not "eat your lunch".

Im not sure how familiar you are with Arizona and Georgia but they are nothing alike in terms of climate.

opihi5 VF? Yeeeouch.

I said they are "evenly matched." Nobody is claiming anyone is eating anyone else's lunch. If you need more power to match a BM3 E85 car, go ahead and get a 650 kit and you will be in the same ballpark. The point is a supercharged E9x is absolutely still fast by today's standards.

I would think Arizona is a more extreme climate to test heat soak in than Georgia. Heat soak is a non-issue on a street car with a 550 kit. It may start cutting timing if you're doing very hot track days but would still be completely safe and not give you any trouble whatsoever.

[JustAnothaM4]

Get a used ESS 625 with a full exhaust system and enjoy the ride.

I just picked up my SC kit and look forward to the thrill once installed.

[kevin @ eas]

We have had a few cars crack 400whp on our dyno. That combo consists of:
Tune
Intake
Pulleys
Catless X-pipe
and preferably lighter wheels

Right now with ESS's price drop recently the 595 kit seems to be the best bang for the buck. $7k and will get you in the 500whp club. 8k will get you about 30 more hp with the 625 kit. With a used kit keep in mind you will have to buy the tune again which is $900-1k so add that on top of the price.

If you are local to us we still have the free install deal going on ESS superchargers.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by project e46m3

Get a used ESS 625 with a full exhaust system and enjoy the ride.

I just picked up my SC kit and look forward to the thrill once installed.

Used 625s need to drop in price to make it worth it with the new "new" pricing. People still want 5k for used kits with no tune.

Iyzmi while Arizona is hotter it does not have much humidity. Georgia on the other hand has 70-80% humidity on top of extreme heat.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Used 625s need to drop in price to make it worth it with the new "new" pricing. People still want 5k for used kits with no tune.

Iyzmi while Arizona is hotter it does not have much humidity. Georgia on the other hand has 70-80% humidity on top of extreme heat.

$5k for a used 625 kit would actually be a pretty solid deal IMO. That's $5,900 after tune which is $2k in savings over brand new. That covers the cost of an xpipe with money left over. The issue is people post them for $6k and refuse to negotiate lower, which is totally not worth it.

Again - it depends on how you're using the car. If you want to track it in high heat/humidity than you should definitely go with an intercooled kit but still expect it to cut timing. On the street, it's a non-issue.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

$5k for a used 625 kit would actually be a pretty solid deal IMO. That's $5,900 after tune which is a $2k in savings over brand new. That covers the cost of an xpipe with money left over. The issue is people post them for $6k and refuse to negotiate lower, which is totally not worth it.

Again - it depends on how you're using the car. If you want to track it in high heat/humidity than you should definitely go with an intercooled kit but still expect it to cut timing. On the street, it's a non-issue.

Agree to disagree where I live specifically.

[azndrunk74]

full bolt ons wakes the car up but you'll always want more.

when i first installed my ess 625 kit, it did 490whp (on a supposedly low reading dyno) on 91 octane. some maintenance and a new x-pipe later, it was around 516whp. still wanting more, i did the AFD flex fuel kit and got it up to 554whp on E50. again wanting more, i upped the boost to 8 psi so it should easily be 570+whp now. now it's finally getting fun. it seems like 6xxwhp is what it takes to be competitive these days!