Jalopnik: "The Death Of BMW’s M Brand"

[Cl0ud7]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I just bought an M-umbrella from the BMW lifestyle online store .

[CanAutM3]

I just bought an M-umbrella from the BMW lifestyle online store . The ///M logo is finding it's place everywhere.

[C-M2]

Originally Posted by ALPINE6SPD

90K how could they do that? that a pipe dream Its a 120k car that would almost NEVER sell in the US unless they made like 500 at most. Plus the cost of smog testing, crash testing, changing the seats etc for US reg would make the car a lot more than that. Would you buy an M3 GTS for 140k-150k plus?

No, I'd buy a GT3rs at that price point. But at 100k I would buy a M3 GTS and so would many others.

Why would it never sell? Porsche seems to not have any problem selling a car like that. Neither does Mercedes. Why would BMW have trouble? They seem to think the U.S. market isn't interested when it actually is.

[DiscoZ]

Originally Posted by ozinaldo

Off the topic, but got to say this: The Z4MC is a fantastic car and there is really nothing wrong in matching its performance. Having said that, there is also no match to talk about either cause the 1M is quicker than the Z4MC in every single performance department and on every single track including the Ring. I am yet to see any numbers of a stock Z4MC equal or better than the 1M. Not too much difference but there is still some. Just for the record and no intention to take the discussion somewhere unnecessary.

Mean the 'ring times. Both 8:15. I am sure the 1 series M is faster, it should be given it is 6 years newer, only weighs ~150lbs more and has more torque, HP, better tires etc. Stock acceleration is about the same too... however the N54 / 55 are much more tunable.

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by SehrSchnell

That dude needs to get laid. Seriously, I don't care much for the 'lime rock' edition either, but the lengths people will go to bitch about shit is beyond me.

+100000 relax people the next m3 was said to be a better car than the current generation and the f30 m3 isnt even fully finished yet

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by DiscoZ

Mean the 'ring times. Both 8:15. I am sure the 1 series M is faster, it should be given it is 6 years newer, only weighs ~150lbs more and has more torque, HP, better tires etc. Stock acceleration is about the same too... however the N54 / 55 are much more tunable.

Like I said, not much difference anyway and no need. The Z4MC is a fantastic work of art and I would love to have one next to my 1M at the garage. They really are raw and simple driving tools but so different at the same time due to engines and body designs.

[TopSpeedM3]

Originally Posted by M3PO

LOL, you've got to be kidding. So let me get this straight, you're not impressed by anything making less than 100 HP per liter it appears. So that rules out all the NA AMGs, all the Corvettes (ZR1 included), the Boss 302, the Viper, some Lambos and Feraris, and basically everything else under $200K besides the Honda S2000. Not to mention, have you priced out a GT3(RS) in comparison to an M3? Go try to buy a 4.0L Porsche and let me know how that turns out.

The article was terrible. Full of sniveling and whining. Contradictions and hypocrisy. And I don't give a shit about M or it's heritage, I bough an M3 because it was the best car in the segment. Period.

You must now feel the need to troll around and comment on my posts. You have no idea what I think, know, or have done.

I suggest you drop it...

I have many options for what I could drive daily and I pick the M3. Yes I have ordered a supercharger for it, because in my opinion all the car lacks is about 100whp from being perfect.

Douglas Wilks

[DiscoZ]

Originally Posted by M3PO

LOL, you've got to be kidding. So let me get this straight, you're not impressed by anything making less than 100 HP per liter it appears. So that rules out all the NA AMGs, all the Corvettes (ZR1 included), the Boss 302, the Viper, some Lambos and Feraris, and basically everything else under $200K besides the Honda S2000. Not to mention, have you priced out a GT3(RS) in comparison to an M3? Go try to buy a 4.0L Porsche and let me know how that turns out.

The article was terrible. Full of sniveling and whining. Contradictions and hypocrisy. And I don't give a shit about M or it's heritage, I bough an M3 because it was the best car in the segment. Period.

2. Hahaha... so it's crap why? Did it make you feel angry? Please refute it, you and the 1,000 other fanbois. Don't make a broad declarative statement with no basis or premise behind your “conclusion / argument”.

1. Who gives a damn about "100hp/litre"... no one who cares about performance – otherwise you would see those who are serious about performance brag about it vs. trying to achieve it to get the most power from their cars - which is the idea, vs. the circle jerk. Race cars don't produce 100/hp+ per litre so their crews and fans can get mini chubs each time they think about it. It because they are constrained by rules and need to make the most power from what they have. This has found its way into street cars for (a) homologation, and (b) to give you that "race" feeling. I think he meant what you get for the price. BMW has done nothing to this car except come out with an overpriced GTS edition and an overpriced "track" version bolted together from its existing inventory of parts to squeeze that last bit of juice out of its fanboy followers – many of who probably consume ramen noodles for dinner to afford the next $5K exhaust from the aftermarket because it has beautiful welds or is made of Inconel, etc.

This is why I just bought a Mercedes after 5 BMWs.

(not that there are no fanbois there)

[Reznick]

I'm well aware of Bill Caswell's accomplishments and building cars, but it seems like he woke up pissed at the world when he wrote this. That or he's trying very hard to impress the bitter little Jalopink crew he's writing with. You even mention the M3 and it sends Jalops into a hissy fit and you are (in their words ) instantly an asshat for driving one. I can fully agree with some of the points he makes but it seems as though his writing is a contradiction . He slams the me people that will buy this car as posers , but then says he can't wait to run into them at the hotel in their racesuits before heading to the track( I see what he's getting at,,but they are going to the track right? I haven't run into an amateur racer that doesn't like people to know they track their car. Just look at peoples sig's on this very site and the pics of them on track they post below. Thas why its there right? So we all know you track your car). He can't wait to run into them?? for what ?? to mock them? He's too cool for THIS type of driver. I'm sure there was a time in Bill's life when he was a little over enthusiastic to get on track.
People can go on and on about the M division being dead. But why pick this car? it started its life as an M3. Its a great car straight out of the box. Its not as though BMW is asking an outrageous amount of money for this special edition, so why are his panties in such a bunch. There will only be 200 made and it will start at $70,000. Thats what an E92 M3 costs anyway. Its not as though they took a new 325 ,slapped some wheels and an M badge on it and are asking 125K for it. There have bee many other manufacturers that have made " special editions" with limited changes and huge price tags and nobody says a word. ( Someone else mentioned the outgoing GT3, but that car came with major changes and the much bigger price tag to boot).While I will agree that slapping an M badge on everything lessens the true M cars lineage I can't agree that BMW's current cars are totally a product of their own doing. I'd love to see a stripped down, light car thats fun to throw around a track , but with more and more government mandates, you're just not gonna see it . Hell a Ford Focus is 3100lbs.As someone else already pointed out even if BMW did build a cheap stripped down track car, it wouldn't sell to the masses. Like it or not its the "masses" that keep car companies in business. M3's and M5's are a tiny fragment of BMW's sales

[James T. Kirk]

The article was despicable... but not wrong.
.

[cs4444]

The fact is M cars are still top in all of their classes. They have world class engines, and no other manufacture that makes tuned versions of their standard models modifies them as heavily as BMW M does. BMW is even now developing new M's as standalone models from the ground up. The F80 will look like a 3 series, but is being developed as a unique model from the start. The chassis and body will use a higher ratio of lighter materials than the standard 3 series. Every aspect of the car will be unique compared to a standard 3 series, RS and AMG do not go to such lengths.

The F10m has unique aluminum suspension compared to the standard 5, and its rear suspension is bolted directly to the rear sub frame like in the M3 GTS, also the M5's chassis was modified to allow the motor to sit further and lower in the car. The end result is that the M5 is faster around the ring than a Panamera turbo, and has a much nicer ride...for a considerably less money! BMW asked M5 customers what they want in the next generation M5, and the F10m was the result of what the actual customers wanted, not lounge chair enthusiasts…people wanted a hardcore M3 we got the GTS, people wanted the back to basics entry level M we got the 1M. BMW M is still making world class performance cars.

[MA///M3]

Can't say he doesn't have some valid points... but who the hell is this jalopnik guy? My e92 may be my last ///M

[Norsk]

CSL was indeed a nice special edition that brought true value to paying customers.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by Reznick

I'd love to see a stripped down, light car thats fun to throw around a track , but with more and more government mandates, you're just not gonna see it . Hell a Ford Focus is 3100lbs.As someone else already pointed out even if BMW did build a cheap stripped down track car, it wouldn't sell to the masses. Like it or not its the "masses" that keep car companies in business. M3's and M5's are a tiny fragment of BMW's sales

Do you think it was BMW's intent for the M brand to be something that is sold to the masses? The M cars is a small segment which is why is should be something special even if it comes at a loss financially because it helps promote the BMW brand. Using cost and regulations as an excuse for not being able to build a true M car for the US is a big cop out. Porsche does it and they don't have nearly the amount of revenue BMW has.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by US///M3

Yeah because when BMW offers old school performance...light weight Recaro seats, rear bench delete,wider wheels and tires, coilovers,a 4.4L NA engine they want $140,000 for it.

It's not like a choice between a Boss 302ls or GT500 at similar prices or chosing between an E36 M3 or a E36 M3 LTW. Btw i know a guy who purchased an E36 M3 LTW new,there were no trunk money you've talked about.i dont know why you keep repeating the ltw was a commercial faillure.
He had to travell all the way to Cleveland OH to get one at msrp.

The M3 GTS is well over $140k, geez i wonder why there arent so many takers?

The GTS was a limited run car built by BMW Individual (not serial production)- it was supposed to be 50 units- it ended up being 120+ units and they all sold at full MSRP it was a success. The fact is that the E92 CSL was designed and built but when presented to the BMW AG board and they said "NO" bc the world economy was in the crapper in 2009.

Do you really think M put in all that R&D for the GTS and CRT just to sell 187 units? Nope they had bigger plans and to sell the E92 CSL in 2010 (US excluded bc of emissions and crash testing). The seats in the CRT are awesome but about $10k and developed in house. If they could have reached economies of scale with the CSL it would have been more inline with $90k (which was the target price) according to those I talked to at M- during my time with the CRT they were very open and honest about what it was meant to be.

The guy that purchased that LTW new- that sucks he paid full price bc they could give the 100 or so away by the end of the run- some people actually paid a premium for the Z4 M as well and after that initial run they sat on lots for sometimes over a year.

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by MAM3

Can't say he doesn't have some valid points... but who the hell is this jalopnik guy? My e92 may be my last ///M

google him...guy is pretty well known among BMW tuner circuits. His claim to fame began when he transformed his e30 318 to a rally car that beat teams with $400k cars:

http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-50...k-rally-racers

[tibra1]

I have to say I didnt hate what he had to say..and the part about what the M division was in 70s, 80s, & 90s is right on..the main reason being there was much less competition for the Ms backs then...the M cars were quite literally leaps and bounds over the competition performance wise

Faster forward today and you got Mustangs and even Hyundais, and the like putting out serious power and the M brand has had to adapt from focusing just pure performance but also all the ghey crap that people get on these cars..alcantra steering wheels, indiviual colors, fuzzy dice..whatever..and this has compromised the M division's focus on producing strictly better performing car with each model year..there definitly is a cheesy quality now with all these packages, and performance development suffers as something has got to give.

Guys like me who live for the car to be all about the engine/suspension and how it drives forgo all the bells and whistles...my car doesnt even if have power seats and I wouldnt want it any other way..

[Reznick]

Originally Posted by MAM3

Can't say he doesn't have some valid points... but who the hell is this jalopnik guy? My e92 may be my last ///M

http://www.off-road.com/blog/2010/11...ace-baja-1000/
Bought a BMW off Craigslist for $500, converted it to compete in Baja 1000 and podiums....and no the e92 wont be your last M. A LOT of people said that when the E46 M3 was going out. Most of them now have E9x's M's, although I still love the the E46 M3

[Time]

Originally Posted by ssabripo

I keep getting back to the e46 CSL everytime I think about these "special editions"...now THAT was a car that really deserved some attention, but too bad that it never made it Stateside...

I agree the CSL is cool, but I can hear Jeramy clarkson now, "No radio, plastic instead of glass, card board in the trunk, and AC is an opition. You pay more to get less, it's going to get to the point where if you walk passed a BMW dealer they are going to charge you $1,000,000!"

Originally Posted by Reznick

http://www.off-road.com/blog/2010/11...ace-baja-1000/
Bought a car off Craigslist, converted it to compete in Baja and won....and no the e92 wont be your last M. A LOT of people said that when the E46 M3 was going out. Most of them now have E9x's M's, although I still love the the E46 M3

I've seen that as far back as the e36 ppl saying they wouldn't get an e46 bc it wasnt a true M, what with the four exhaust tips and all.

[r53s65e90]

As long as they make cars I want to drive I don't care where they slap M badges. The poser market is big. It is only understandable that they cater to it.

[3M TAPE]

LOL, this post is getting epic.

Here are things I don't want to hear on this forum.

1. ///M for marketing?
It's people who are interested in the M brand/heritage not the other way around...

2. M5's fake sound?
Seriously, can we just drop this argument already?
So whenver youtube on the internet you automatically think all the sound it makes through the speaker is fake...?

3. ///M brand's being diluted?
Business is all about making profits and the goal is to maximize the profit. What is so wrong about this concept?

Some narrow-minded BMW enthusiasts...

[npcars]

This guy needs to get real. Big corporations are there because they know how to make $!! They're not sitting high and mighty because they're catering to whiny bi*****. Don't get me wrong I love the CSL's, GTS's, and CRT's that BMW and the M department has produced but by the same token they know they need to appeal to the masses because that's where the BIG money is at. AND at the end of the day it's not like any of the M cars are anything to scoff at. They're still producing benchmark vehicles.