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      01-09-2008, 04:00 PM   #1
drvai
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About Gas Guzzler tax...

I was wondering why everybody takes as granted that the new M3 will have a gas guzzler tax even higher than the past generation of the M3, if it's supposed to be 7% more economic. I mean, if that's really true, the E90 M3 would be free of GG tax, as the E43 was in the first bracket. In the worst scenario, the tax will be the same.

Am I missing something here?

When will we know which will be the GG tax? (if there is any)
When the price is announced?

Thoughts??
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      01-09-2008, 04:55 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
I was wondering why everybody takes as granted that the new M3 will have a gas guzzler tax even higher than the past generation of the M3, if it's supposed to be 7% more economic. I mean, if that's really true, the E90 M3 would be free of GG tax, as the E43 was in the first bracket. In the worst scenario, the tax will be the same.

Am I missing something here?

When will we know which will be the GG tax? (if there is any)
When the price is announced?

Thoughts??

You will know if there is a GC tax when BMW deems you worthy of knowing.

The figure is actually 8%, I believe, more efficient. It is not known if that directly translates into more mpg.
My guess is that it will be fairly close, but a bit higher than the previous $1200 or so.
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      01-09-2008, 06:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
I was wondering why everybody takes as granted that the new M3 will have a gas guzzler tax even higher than the past generation of the M3, if it's supposed to be 7% more economic. I mean, if that's really true, the E90 M3 would be free of GG tax, as the E43 was in the first bracket. In the worst scenario, the tax will be the same.

Am I missing something here?

When will we know which will be the GG tax? (if there is any)
When the price is announced?
EPA testing must be complete by now, and the tax is derived from formulas using those numbers. I believe the E46 fell into the second taxable category, 20.5 - <21.5 mpg, for a $1,300 tax. The 8% improvement figure BMW stated did was not defined, and will likely not translate driectly into the EPA tested economy. We may see the tax go down, or up. I would guess when pricing is released, this information will be made available, as well. It needs to go on the Monroney stickers for the first vehicles that will be shipped to the US later this month.

BTW, the bill on the M5 is $3,000.
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      01-09-2008, 07:05 PM   #4
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This will not help.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml

Quote:
EPA has changed the way it estimates MPG.

Starting in model year 2008, estimates will reflect the effects of

Faster Speeds & Acceleration
Air Conditioner Use
Colder Outside Temperatures
What else do I need to know about the new ratings?
The tests lower MPG estimates for most vehicles.

View old/new MPG ratings for a specific vehicle
Convert old MPG estimates to new estimate


The actual mileage you get will still vary based on your driving habits, traffic conditions, and other factors.

All MPG estimates in Find-a-Car have been converted to the to the new ratings system to help consumers compare the MPG of older and newer cars.
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      01-09-2008, 09:22 PM   #5
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GGT & new EPA test

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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
No, it will hve no effect. For purposes of GGT, the test results are based pm the numbers used for CAFE purposes, which are not changing.

“\39\ See 40 CFR 86.113-94.
—————————————————————————

3. Relationship of Today’s Proposal With Other Statutes and Regulations
a. Automobile Disclosure Act. A provision in EPCA (at 49 U.S.C. 32908(b)(2)) allows the fuel economy information to be included on the
window sticker label of vehicle manufacturing and price information required by the Automobile Disclosure Act at 15 U.S.C. 1232 (the so-
called “Monroni'’ label.). To that end, the Federal Trade Commission issued a “Fuel Guide'’ concerning the fuel economy advertising for new
automobiles, published in the Federal Register at 16 CFR Part 259. This guide refers back to EPA’s fuel economy regulations and specifically to
how manufacturers are permitted to advertise the city and highway fuel economy of their vehicles.
b. Internal Revenue Code. This code contains the provisions governing the administration of the Gas Guzzler Tax.\40\ It contains the
table of applicable taxes and defines which vehicles are subject to the taxes. The IRS code specifies that the fuel economy to be used to
assess the amount of tax will be the combined city and highway fuel economy as determined by using the procedures in place in 1975, or
procedures that give comparable results (similar to EPCA’s requirements for determining CAFE). Today’s proposal does not impact these procedures.”
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      01-09-2008, 09:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
No, it will hve no effect. For purposes of GGT, the test results are converted to figures which would have been achieved under the old test methodology.
Really? Why do they do it that way? I thought the new readings were going to be used for CGT.
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      01-09-2008, 09:33 PM   #7
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Ggt, Epa & Cafe

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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Really? Why do they do it that way? I thought the new readings were going to be used for CGT.
I've amended my post above with more information. As with most government programs, it's a confusing mess and makes no sense from a logical point of view.
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      01-09-2008, 09:46 PM   #8
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Now I am really confused....
So they will have EPA's using the old and new criteria and the ggt will be ruled by the old one?
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      01-09-2008, 09:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
Now I am really confused....
So they will have EPA's using the old and new criteria and the ggt will be ruled by the old one?
Yes, that's basically right. Ideally, from a logical point of view, the standard for CAFE averages would be the same as the window sticker posted mileages, and the GGT wouold be based on that, so it would be somewhat consistent. I'm sure it was a political expedient not to try and change all three pieces of legislation.
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      01-09-2008, 10:54 PM   #10
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So Back to my original question.. why will the E90 M3 have a GG tax? When they say that it's 8% more economical they are talking about a theoretical thing that is not seen in the real world?

Does any of our european friends have any solid evidence on this? What MPG are you getting? Anyone switched from a E46 to a E90 and have data?

That would be the answer for all this guessing.
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      01-10-2008, 06:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drvai View Post
So Back to my original question.. why will the E90 M3 have a GG tax? When they say that it's 8% more economical they are talking about a theoretical thing that is not seen in the real world?
We answered that.
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      01-10-2008, 07:24 AM   #12
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Taxation without representation
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