Anyone Gone From DCT to 6MT.. Regretted or Are Happier?

[pbonsalb]

My next car will be DCT or Auto or PDK.

[Iyzmi]

My next car will drive itself. Seriously. That would be cool.

[srmast1]

I have not gone from a dct to 6mt per se, but I have an Audi a4 quattro with the steptronic transmission with steering wheel shift paddles which I daily. In sport mode, it holds the revs very well and waits for me to give the shift command via paddle. This is nice because sometimes after a long day or whatever, I just don't feel like shifting/trying to rev match etc..The a4 quattro is surprisingly quick in sport mode I might add.

When I want a more visceral, challenging, rewarding driving experience, I hope into my lci 6mt e90m. I can't say one is better, just different. The auto option in the a4 allows for more comfy, mindless cruising and auto-manual shifting if I desire. The 6mt e90 is more fun in general, but can get repetitive with the shifting, especially since it's not the smoothest shifter. With the a4, I can just lose myself in the drive and just drive. With the m3, I always feel connected mechanically to the car and that brings out a totally different mindset, and yields a totally different experience while driving. The shifting and engine sounds I anticipate make me feel like I'm in a old school v8 race car.

Let me add that currently, I am fortunate enough to not have to use the m3 as my only car. If it was to be my only car, I would probably have it as dct, but I bought it as my fun/weekend car. My daily is, as stated above, an automatic.

[McSwine]

It's nice we have a choice.

Everyone wins.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Honda

I might be from the minority here but I went from DCT to MT and I regretted it to the point I sold the car in 6 months. 6MT is NOT really meant for this engine no matter what others would say. DCT is best suited and designed for this engine. Test drive 911 6MT and then M3 back to back then would notice huge difference.

I am going again for 3rd M3 and it will be DCT.

100% agree on this point. If I buy a E9x again it will be DCT.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by baseCPM3

I DD a 5 speed manual, averaging 20,000 miles per year and I suppose that it does wear on me from time to time. We buy M cars for the driving experience and in order to maximize that experience, in a non-track setting (where our cars spend 99% of their life), the 6MT is an absolute must. If you only drive one car and opt for auto/DCT, you are compromising that experience/driving joy in favor of more practical considerations. Nothing wrong with that, but, to a degree, the purpose of the car is partially frustrated.

I agree in principle but not in practice. Yes, we buy these cars for the experience they deliver and in general a manual adds more to the experience than a DCT. However, when the car is used how it was meant to be - spirited road driving - the DCT is extremely rewarding, enhancing the experience moreso than a manual do to the precision and performance it offers. A manual transmission is flat out a nuisance on a sketchy canyon run. If you're "thinking" about heel/toe on a canyon run you're not focused on the car's placement on the road which means you're distracted.

The DCT lets you focus on fewer things and do those things at a higher level of precision = more rewarding.

Normal, everyday driving? Manual is more fun and rewarding, hands down. However, contrary to your point, using this car as a DD and thus justifying the more rewarding 6MT in that environment is in fact compromising the car immensely. I am guilty of this myself and freely admit it.

I love both and generally prefer the manual but I will never agree with the notion that the DCT is less rewarding in anything but normal DD use - the moment you turn the heat up even a hair the DCT is a vastly better tool for the job and thus more rewarding.

And therin lies the catch 22 - the 6MT is more fun when the car is used as transportation and less fun when used how it was meant to be used.

[Xcrave]

After reading pages of peoples opinions, I find that most people on here are set on what they want to drive. The other small percentage of unbiased reviews make good points.
What I've noticed just from reading is that there's the whole driver mod missing when it comes to DTC owners.
Anyone that says that the 6 speed distracts you from concentrating around complicated turns shouldn't be driving a manual.

To summarize, a person that wants a 6 speed want's full car control.
A person who wants DTC wants to be the fastest.

[McSwine]

Originally Posted by McSwine

It's nice we have a choice.

Everyone wins.

Good Gawd.

I hate to be one of those douchebags that quotes myself but I'm afraid I have to be one of those douchebags.

Get what you want. Enjoy it. Be happy for other people that decide differently.

[STooK]

Originally Posted by McSwine

Good Gawd.

I hate to be one of those douchebags that quotes myself but I'm afraid I have to be one of those douchebags.

Get what you want. Enjoy it. Be happy for other people that decide differently.

Unfortunately these debates have been around since the beginning and probably will continue until we have only the automatic option. Then we’ll probably argue about something else.

I’m more curious to see which will hold value more in the future, dct or 6mt.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by Xcrave

To summarize, a person that wants a 6 speed want's full car control.
A person who wants DTC wants to be the fastest.

Has nothing to do with that.

The 6Spd in the M3 is not suited to the S65 character. I've driven far less powerful cars with a manual that where much more enjoyable to drive. The manual in the M3 was just aggravating in daily operation.

[GRUESOM3]

Dct people also prefer the latest idrive

[ruff1017]

I drove many dct cars and found them boring and limited.

Go with dct if you are not sure which transmission is better
for you.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by Xcrave

After reading pages of peoples opinions, I find that most people on here are set on what they want to drive. The other small percentage of unbiased reviews make good points.
What I've noticed just from reading is that there's the whole driver mod missing when it comes to DTC owners.
Anyone that says that the 6 speed distracts you from concentrating around complicated turns shouldn't be driving a manual.

To summarize, a person that wants a 6 speed want's full car control.
A person who wants DTC wants to be the fastest.

These fast people should probably trade their E9x in for a F80 or C63 automatic then.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

I agree in principle but not in practice. Yes, we buy these cars for the experience they deliver and in general a manual adds more to the experience than a DCT. However, when the car is used how it was meant to be - spirited road driving - the DCT is extremely rewarding, enhancing the experience moreso than a manual do to the precision and performance it offers. A manual transmission is flat out a nuisance on a sketchy canyon run. If you're "thinking" about heel/toe on a canyon run you're not focused on the car's placement on the road which means you're distracted.

The DCT lets you focus on fewer things and do those things at a higher level of precision = more rewarding.

Normal, everyday driving? Manual is more fun and rewarding, hands down. However, contrary to your point, using this car as a DD and thus justifying the more rewarding 6MT in that environment is in fact compromising the car immensely. I am guilty of this myself and freely admit it.

I love both and generally prefer the manual but I will never agree with the notion that the DCT is less rewarding in anything but normal DD use - the moment you turn the heat up even a hair the DCT is a vastly better tool for the job and thus more rewarding.

And therin lies the catch 22 - the 6MT is more fun when the car is used as transportation and less fun when used how it was meant to be used.

If you find a manual transmission to be a nuisance on twisty roads, then you need to spend more time learning and perfecting the art of driving manual until shifting is second nature rather than a distraction. Only then will you understand the rewarding experience that is driving a manual car in heat. Until then, I absolutely agree that a DCT will be better suited and provide a less stressful and quite possibly more fun experience for you. Just don't confuse that with "more rewarding." Easier hardly ever equals more rewarding.

Originally Posted by Xcrave

Anyone that says that the 6 speed distracts you from concentrating around complicated turns shouldn't be driving a manual.

There are two types of people who have this "distraction" viewpoint. Those that recognize that the distraction is a limitation of their own skill and aim to correct this by practicing and improving said skill, and those who only know the basics of driving manual and will never excel beyond that base level of proficiency. There is nothing inherently wrong with either viewpoint, not everyone is interested in perfecting their driving skills and that's perfectly fine. I know people who have driven manual for decades and are still not what I would consider skilled at it, though they get by and still seem to enjoy it to the extent of willingly purchasing new manual cars.

[DSilk]

I am amused when people opine that the M3 engine is somehow not suited to the 6MT. I have been driving manual transmissions since I was 16 and I have never driven one where the engine and transmission weren't suited to each other. I have driven cars that were not well suited to a manual transmission, the European-market version of the Mercedes Benz 280 SL being a prime example, but that is only because luxury cruisers are not intended to stress driver involvement. The F Type Jaguar is a car that needs a manual transmission. The XJ is one that should not have it.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

If you find a manual transmission to be a nuisance on twisty roads, then you need to spend more time learning and perfecting the art of driving manual until shifting is second nature rather than a distraction. Only then will you understand the rewarding experience that is driving a manual car in heat. Until then, I absolutely agree that a DCT will be better suited and provide a less stressful and quite possibly more fun experience for you. Just don't confuse that with "more rewarding." Easier hardly ever equals more rewarding.

If you think a manual isn't a (relative, key word here) nuisance on a curvy road then you're not driving hard enough, end of story. The DCT is less stuff for your brain to deal with AND allows constant dead pedal support AND two hand driving at all times AND has closer gear spacing for greater resolution - it's simply more efficient to drive fast through a technical section of road. Not debatable. Has noting to do with how skilled one is at driving a manual.

Don't get me wrong, I love manuals but you simply cannot argue the virtues of a good DCT in its element. The manual is loads of fun on said curvy road, no doubt, but it's nowhere near as proficient.... is the point here. It's not easier, it's better.

You can, however, argue the "rewarding" aspect. I'll give you that, BUT, what enthusiast doesn't, at the very least, appreciate a "max performance" option? Enthusiasts, by definition, love performance which means enthusiasts, by definition, love max performance options.

Are you an enthusiast?

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Cool story.

Amen. I love the countless excuses people come up with in their failed attempts at justifying why the DCT is "better."

[jiggz]

Just when I think this thread has finally begun to fizzle out, somebody just has to post again DCT > 6MT or 6MT > DCT. I guess this happens with all of these threads...

There is so much butt hurt here from BOTH camps, yet people still continue to dig their heels in.

Like someone earlier said, lets just be thankful both transmissions were offered. Everybody can be happy. Or just continue to defend their transmission choice to the bitter end

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

If you think a manual isn't a (relative, key word here) nuisance on a curvy road then you're not driving hard enough, end of story. The DCT is less stuff for your brain to deal with AND allows constant dead pedal support AND two hand driving at all times AND has closer gear spacing for greater resolution - it's simply more efficient to drive fast through a technical section of road. Not debatable. Has noting to do with how skilled one is at driving a manual.

Don't get me wrong, I love manuals but you simply cannot argue the virtues of a good DCT in its element. The manual is loads of fun on said curvy road, no doubt, but it's nowhere near as proficient.... is the point here. It's not easier, it's better.

You can, however, argue the "rewarding" aspect. I'll give you that, BUT, what enthusiast doesn't, at the very least, appreciate a "max performance" option? Enthusiasts, by definition, love performance which means enthusiasts, by definition, love max performance options.

Are you an enthusiast?

On the contrary, if you think manual IS a nuisance on curvy roads then you are driving too hard or you need to spend more time honing your skills (if you care to do so). Are you driving 10/10 on public roads? I am not, therefore I can assure you a manual transmission is by no means holding me back and I would not be going any faster with a DCT. I am however having much more fun rowing gears and executing the same mythical perfectly rev-matched downshifts DCT guys drool over, on my own. If you have no desire to master driving manual in all conditions, then the DCT is a fantastic choice and an easier/more accessible way to drive quickly for the average Joe. There's nothing wrong with "easy," it's just not for me or many others who want more out of the driving experience.

Your argument is much better suited for the track. Would I be faster around a track with a DCT? Yes, I'm sure I would be. But that's not the primary purpose of my car, and if it were I would buy a GTR for the ultimate Playstation experience. Why do you think Porsche is bringing back a manual option for the GT3? It's certainly not because it's faster around a track... It's what enthusiasts want.

Originally Posted by jiggz

Just when I think this thread has finally begun to fizzle out, somebody just has to post again DCT > 6MT or 6MT > DCT. I guess this happens with all of these threads...

There is so much butt hurt here from BOTH camps, yet people still continue to dig their heels in.

Like someone earlier said, lets just be thankful both transmissions were offered. Everybody can be happy. Or just continue to defend their transmission choice to the bitter end

There is some butt hurt on both sides, but I think for the most part people are just enjoying the discussion as it's a topic folks have a strong opinion about. The thread will die naturally when people run out of steam, and another thread on this topic will be started in short order. Welcome .

[srmast1]

Originally Posted by monterey

It sounds like you already made up your mind and want a manual. So just get it. There's no doubt that the launch on this car in manual sucks but once you are in 2nd it's all smiles.

There is actually quite a bit of doubt in my mind. The launch with a 6mt e90m or e92m does not suck if you are skilled enough to do it properly. No real skill involved when launching a dct car. However if you are familiar with the launch characteristics and manual transmission with your m3, quick launches, without dropping the clutch are possible and fun. It just takes practice to really get a feel for putting the power to the wheels while also avoiding wheel spin. That's the key with the 6mt on the e9x...practice to get the feel of how much power goes to the rear wheels, and how quickly, while releasing the clutch and giving gas, while also being mindful of wheel spin. It is very do-able.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Once again I drove a 6MT on Saturday. It happened to be a members car. And he drove my DCT. I was once again underwhelmed by the 6MT's lack of response when shifting gears. He however was thoroughly enjoying the DCT and its quick responses when shifting and thrusting the car forward. Maybe heel toe-ing the 6MT would have simulated the DCT shifting, but then again, I wouldn't have any intention or want of heel toe-ing all day long just to get the car moving in a more effective manner. Again, just my .02 cents but why oh why did BMW miss so badly with the manual gear box. Or is it just that the DCT is just light years better than what any manual can do.

Try the 6MT with the UCP pedal and an AutoSolutions SSK and you may change your mind

DCT with GTS software is very impressive but the 6MT continues to be more fun and way, way more cretinous.
Kids looking at the car while you drive around? Mash the throttle while holding the clutch in for a second, then drop the clutch and you can lay some nice stripes down. Kids rejoice. Mothers run for cover. Children cry. All in a second.

One should not underestimate the need to be a cretin!

For my part, I have one of each. DCT GTS and the 6MT with UCP and AutoSolutions

People are of the opinion that the DCT is much better suited to the track. Well, it is, but not as much as people think. We used the 6MT M3 a few years before switching the track car to a DCT and we can lay down very similar times with both cars.
The only time DCT is substantially better is when you make mistakes and/or don't know the track. If you have your shift points down the 6MT is very similar in speed.
Same day, same tires, same driver

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

On the contrary, if you think manual IS a nuisance on curvy roads then you are driving too hard or you need to spend more time honing your skills (if you care to do so). Are you driving 10/10 on public roads? I am not, therefore I can assure you a manual transmission is by no means holding me back and I would not be going any faster with a DCT. I am however having much more fun rowing gears and executing the same mythical perfectly rev-matched downshifts DCT guys drool over, on my own. If you have no desire to master driving manual in all conditions, then the DCT is a fantastic choice and an easier/more accessible way to drive quickly for the average Joe. There's nothing wrong with "easy," it's just not for me or many others who want more out of the driving experience.

Your argument is much better suited for the track. Would I be faster around a track with a DCT? Yes, I'm sure I would be. But that's not the primary purpose of my car, and if it were I would buy a GTR for the ultimate Playstation experience. Why do you think Porsche is bringing back a manual option for the GT3? It's certainly not because it's faster around a track... It's what enthusiasts want.



There is some butt hurt on both sides, but I think for the most part people are just enjoying the discussion as it's a topic folks have a strong opinion about. The thread will die naturally when people run out of steam, and another thread on this topic will be started in short order. Welcome .

Good discussion indeed. I'm mostly playing devils advocate as I get really annoyed by the 6MT-purist mindset that simply will not consider, even for a moment, that there may be very specific situations/scenarios where the DCT is in fact the better tool for the job.

If the goal is to go around a track in the shortest amount of time then doing so will be highly rewarding. Therefore, you want to use the best possible tool for the job so that you reach the ultimate goal = most rewarding. Basic logic here.

You seem to acknowledge, however slight, the DCT's strengths in certain scenarios while at the same time suggesting that anyone who likes the DCT can't drive a manual properly, and, that you've "mastered" the manual - those last two parts make it hard to take you seriously. You can rev-match a downshift in a manual? Wow, really great work there (wink). I guess that (somehow) accounts for all of the other benefits of the DCT I listed - notice I never once mentioned rev-matched downshifts, eh?

I will choose a manual 9/10 times. That doesn't mean I'm too proud, too manly, or too cool to prefer the DCT at times. 7 or 8/10ths back canyon driving is definitely one of those times. It's just a far more precise tool for that job even though the manual is also fun. Sometimes I prefer precise fun over less precise fun.