Next Gen F30 M3 To Be Based on N55 Engine

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by Epacy2

Ummm, the OP was kind of all over the place. Is it true that the next M3 will share alot of parts with the 1M? Please tell me that wasn't the jist...

No, I don´t think so. It´s more than the next (F3x) M3 will share a lot of parts with the next (F2x) 1M ... and this 1M get many parts from the e9x M3 !!!

People who allready has driven the new F10 M5 quots the the car has much power and is very fast, but the hole feeling of the V8TT is totally different from the old V10 and other M cars!

Uli_HH

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by rems09135i

yeah Ur right! lol wtf was i saying? im driving and writing on my i phone not a good idea!

No Dude, driving and writing is ok. Driving, writing and drinking coffee takes talent

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Also, the "purists" make no sense to me. When Porsche jumped into the turbo ring, do you think the 911 people scowled at the Turbo folks because they betrayed their N/A roots? Maybe for a week until they saw the Turbos Ugly-Slap everything else on the road. Now when you see an N/A Carerra, you almost assume that the guy couldnt afford a Turbo, not that he's driving it because he's a purist.

Fortunately, BMW will only have one F30 M3 (with the turbo). You wont have to choose like the Porsche people and spend a bundle more.

The thing is, Porsche still offers the GT3 and GT3RS models for those that want a high revving, naturally aspirated 911. BMW on the other hand is completely replacing the high revving motors with 7k RPM turbo charged ones. I suspect that the backlash you'd see from the Porsche faithful if they decided to drop the GT3 models would dwarf the backlash in this thread (and the other similar ones we've seen in the past).

[BMW_x5_Msport]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

If I were you, I'd worry most about proof reading

yeah Ur right! lol wtf was i saying? im driving and writing on my i phone not a good idea!

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The thing is, Porsche still offers the GT3 and GT3RS models for those that want a high revving, naturally aspirated 911. BMW on the other hand is completely replacing the high revving motors with 7k RPM turbo charged ones. I suspect that the backlash you'd see from the Porsche faithful if they decided to drop the GT3 models would dwarf the backlash in this thread (and the other similar ones we've seen in the past).

Do you really think? I doubt it. How many GT3s are sold per year vs Turbos?

[stealth-twntrbo]

I say they throw the s54 in it with a single turbo, now that would be a whole lot of fun. Look how amazing HPF has done with the s54

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by stealth-twntrbo

I say they throw the s54 in it with a single turbo, now that would be a whole lot of fun. Look how amazing HPF has done with the s54

Single turbo? And create a lag-machine?

[Njave]

Maybe a kompressor would be a better option, don't know really. But I agree that the magnificent sound of the past M3's will be lost with the turbo option, whether it be a single, or a biturbo engine really. The single turbo would probably be out of the questions as someone already mentioned it, the turbo lag would be too big of an issue to handle it well. Either a small and big, or two small ones would be a much better option.

[Uli_HH]

Originally Posted by Njave

Maybe a kompressor would be a better option, don't know really. But I agree that the magnificent sound of the past M3's will be lost with the turbo option, whether it be a single, or a biturbo engine really. The single turbo would probably be out of the questions as someone already mentioned it, the turbo lag would be too big of an issue to handle it well. Either a small and big, or two small ones would be a much better option.

They make it with 3 Turbos !!!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Do you really think? I doubt it.

Oh absolutely. And I think you could prove it to yourself if you proposed the idea (of getting rid of them) on a Porsche forum.

How many GT3s are sold per year vs Turbos?

I have no idea what the sales numbers are (not sure they are made public). However, the GT3 (and the RS) are institutions, and not just for Porsche but for all sports car enthusiasts. They are the track focused 911s and form the basis for Porsche's factory race car such as the GT3 Cup or R.

Originally Posted by Kyoshi71

Single turbo? And create a lag-machine?

The N55 is a single turbo. It is a twin-scroll type, but still a single turbo. Obviously they have figured out how to deal with lag. Nevertheless, just because the M3 motor is N55 based, does not mean it too will be single turbo. That remains to be seen.

[InquisitiveA]

I can't see this mentioned anywhere so far, apologies if it has been.

Last year BMW showed off their concept car which used a very low capacity turbo diesel engine with electric motors to create a highly efficient car WITH THE PERFORMANCE OF AN M3.

I'm not saying the new M3 will be anything like as extreme, but it's not impossible that the new M3 might have a smaller FI engine and some sort of hybrid tech to increase overall power and smooth out turbo lag, all at lower fuel consumption.

This would probably pi$$ the purists off even more but it's the way the world is going, look at the Porsche 918 Spyder, and if BMW were to do something like that with the new M3 I think it'd be awesome.

[piloto]

Originally Posted by Robert

What creature comfort does Ariel atom have?

Me thinks you misread my post. They, the "purists" still want creature comforts. If they were true purists, they would be happy with an Atom or Exige, which really don't have anything in the way of creature comforts.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Oh absolutely. And I think you could prove it to yourself if you proposed the idea (of getting rid of them) on a Porsche forum.

That's too cruel. Porsche people are a very sensitive bunch

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

It's about balance, handling, "feel", agility, nimbleness, and fun for me. I'm sure it will be "better" from a numbers standpoint (faster, better track times, etc.) but will it be more fun? (Well, if stoplight drag racing or pure power are your thing, yes.) If you're into other things in your driving experience, then no, it will probably not be more fun (especially if they don't address the obesity problem).

+1........I currently owned a very smooth, nicely tuned N54, and I had not even the slightest of hesitations when I put the order down on the S65. Just two completely different worlds. The S65 feels so much more purpose built. Can't explain it.....just can't. I feel I believe a tuned N55 probably won't have. Would have made the switch sooner, but I didn't feel comfortable spending that amount until recent leaps in income

Cheers,
e46e92

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by warzilla

I would go in another angle with the FI vs NA engine debate for the next M3. I would prefer that BMW keep an NA option in the M line-up, while offering FI in other models. In other words, if the 1M will be FI why not keep the M3 NA, so people have a choice?

I look at Porsche. The reason the 911 does so well, it offers that choice to the owner. If they want NA, they can get the 911, 911s or GT3. If they want FI, they can do the Turbo or GT2.

I don't know why BMW can't keep the NA going for people who obviously would appreciate and buy NA M's, and keep models like the 1M for the peeps who like FI. Why can't we have a choice is my thinking here.

BTW - After having a couple of FI cars (ie Audi B4 S4, RS6 and the 335i e92), I really enjoy driving the NA M3. Not sure I want to go back to FI.

Excellent point / question / suggestion. I think the reason for it is cost. To spend the R&D to develop a N/A engine and FI engine would increase costs SUBSTANTIALLY, hence turning a 75k loaded ///M into dare I say a 90k ///m?

But, if it was possible I would pay a premium for a N/A engine.......hell I would even be ok with FI, if it still had a flat torque curve and redlined at 78k or higher.....

Cheers,
e46e92

[Serious]

Please for the love of god stop comparing BMW M cars to the 911 lineup.

The 911 is a purpose built sports car, designed from the ground up as a sports car. The 1m & m3 will always be performance tuned variations of a normal street car.

Besides you all are constantly comparing $50-60k BMW's to even the cheapest $85k 911's and some times to the most expensive $200k cars. Just stop doing it.

BMW sells it's M cars to an audience with different expectations then someone who buys a 911. (even though they may often be the same people)

[Deniz1210]

You know this is exactly the type of argument computer geeks had when Intel started coming out with "multiple cores" and a completely different architecture that primarily worked on scaling rather than the raw power. And guess what, back then there were all these arguments about how it was all "fake" and how everyone preferred the "true" fast CPU and funnily, now you won't find a computer with less than 4 cores. Soon you will have 16 cores. It's all about scalability.

It's also very funny all these comments come from people who either just spent or is thinking of spending a ton of money for a car which from the looks of it will have a very out dated technology. If the N/A engine was such a successful and scalable and if it had the right characteristics and the performance, trust me, you'd be seeing another one, but you are not are you?

The matter of the fact is, your car is getting old (so is mine 2011 335 - heck I'm in a worse situation since mine is nearly a year away from being outdated, you at least have another year). The new one will be much better in terms of power, sound, handling, technology, body style. You have two options, either keep your outdated car and stop complaining, or if you are rich enough, keep selling your car every year with a 20k price hit and buy the latest model. Simple as that. Same thing applies to computers, intel processors, video card, iphone or android phones.

Oh and by the way, ask this to every BMW E9X driver, they will take the turbo high torque engine over the heavy sluggish low torque V8 any day. In fact, I guarantee you, if BMW had the option for ordering a special engine for the M3 and if they had a way of keeping the N55 over 8000 rpm, 90% of you wouldn't even BOTHER getting the V8.

Enjoy the M3 while you can, I am enjoying my soon to be out dated E90 as much as possible!

[AMPowerJ]

Originally Posted by Serious

Please for the love of god stop comparing BMW M cars to the 911 lineup.

The 911 is a purpose built sports car, designed from the ground up as a sports car. The 1m & m3 will always be performance tuned variations of a normal street car.

Besides you all are constantly comparing $50-60k BMW's to even the cheapest $85k 911's and some times to the most expensive $200k cars. Just stop doing it.

BMW sells it's M cars to an audience with different expectations then someone who buys a 911. (even though they may often be the same people)

+1 Well said ...

[piloto]

Originally Posted by Serious

Please for the love of god stop comparing BMW M cars to the 911 lineup.

The 911 is a purpose built sports car, designed from the ground up as a sports car. The 1m & m3 will always be performance tuned variations of a normal street car.

Besides you all are constantly comparing $50-60k BMW's to even the cheapest $85k 911's and some times to the most expensive $200k cars. Just stop doing it.

BMW sells it's M cars to an audience with different expectations then someone who buys a 911. (even though they may often be the same people)

Well said! Although the 911 is a normal street car as well, perhaps you meant to say "regular coupes and sedans," but nevertheless, point well made.

[FruitCake]

lol@people who compare the M3 to the GT3 ahahahha
M3 owners are sofa king insecure

[Serious]

Originally Posted by Deniz1210

You know this is exactly the type of argument computer geeks had when Intel started coming out with "multiple cores" and a completely different architecture that primarily worked on scaling rather than the raw power. And guess what, back then there were all these arguments about how it was all "fake" and how everyone preferred the "true" fast CPU and funnily, now you won't find a computer with less than 4 cores. Soon you will have 16 cores. It's all about scalability.

IMO You're analogy falls a bit short, I get what you're trying to say about how NA engines have to be massive and consume a ton of gas to create the necessary power to compete but IMO it's a bit of a stretch to compare a processor to an engine, since a processor doesn't have a personal 'feel' to it like an engine does.

people aren't worried that the cars won't run or be fast, they are worried that it won't feel and drive like the M cars they are used to.

Trust me, BMW has the best automotive engineers in the world and many of their best work for M the car will be fast, comfortable, brake and handle well, and overall be very reliable. BMW doesn't do "flops" with it's M cars.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Serious

Please for the love of god stop comparing BMW M cars to the 911 lineup.

How bout you tell BMW that? They explicitly did that when the E92 M3 was released. I'll find the link later, unless southlight can get to it first.