Autocar Front Cover Says It All

[Davo2003]

I think the majority of reviews so far have been overwhelmingly positive for the M3. The jury is definitely still out on this and probably will continue deliberating for months. I am sure that if I saw an RS4 next to a new M3 I wouldn't hesitate to take the M3, just more sporting to me, but that's a personal opinion. For me the Audi badge represents a less sporting car but the S5 may change that... we will see. So, my deposit for my M3 stands and I will take delivery sometime in the Spring without hesitation.

[nechronics]

I wouldn't count on the S5 changing your opinion based on performance figures alone as it stands no where near the RS4 or M3. It has gotten no love from reviewers except for its appearance

RS5 on the other hand.....but that's what, 2 years away?

[JEllis]

Didnt the 335i beat the RS4 around a track in VA in a recent magazine road test?

[13eastie]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Didnt the 335i beat the RS4 around a track in VA in a recent magazine road test?

Yes, but this is easily explained by the fact that erm...
...let me think...ah yes...

...they are BOTH much better than the M3!!!!

[JEllis]

hahahaha.....Yeah...ummm...well you see the RS4 is ahhh...and the 335i was in the hmm....

Is my M3 ready yet?

Jason

[ILC32]

Originally Posted by 13eastie

Yes, but this is easily explained by the fact that erm...
...let me think...ah yes...

...they are BOTH much better than the M3!!!!

That has to be it.

[ottomobeel]

Originally Posted by JEllis

Didnt the 335i beat the RS4 around a track in VA in a recent magazine road test?

It also beat out the M6 in that very test did it not? How does that square with your propeller shaped badge?

The VA track is a short track which favors lighter cars apparently, unless you're ready to say the 335i is faster in most circumstances than an M6? Someone also called into question the method in which the heavier cars were warmed up due to the physics of weight, tires/air pressure and hot lapping, the rules of their tests favored lighter cars due to the way they warmed each car up. This likely affected the M6 in this test as well.

But let's get real here. The RS4 has bested BMW's best efforts., this new M3 And for those who don't realize this, the RS4 might only be a 2.5 year old car, but it sits on a 6+ year old chassis. Why not just give credit where it's due?

I am sure the BMW M3 is a great car, it's OK to be 2nd place, the RS4 has received almost unanimous praise over the last several years for a very good reason. There's nothing to be ashamed of.

[ILC32]

Originally Posted by ottomobeel

I am sure the RS4 is a great car, it's OK to be 2nd place, the 335 has received almost unanimous praise over the last several years for a very good reason. There's nothing to be ashamed of.

I agree.

[ottomobeel]

Originally Posted by ILC32

I agree.

I guess it will be a long haul for you guys until the CSL comes out, I almost feel bad for you

[ILC32]

Originally Posted by ottomobeel

I guess it will be a long haul for you guys until the CSL comes out, I almost feel bad for you

Call us when the RS4 catches up to the 335.

[ottomobeel]

Originally Posted by ILC32

Call us when the RS4 catches up to the 335.

I guess that will be at or around the time the M6 catches up to the 335, right? LOL..

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by ottomobeel

I guess that will be at or around the time the M6 catches up to the 335, right? LOL..

Like Southlight said. Where are all these RS4 owners coming from? Did all the Audi forums get shut down? Was there some pact made to go out and troll as much as possible?

[JEllis]

You make statements about the M6 yet it wasnt in that test so get your facts straight. It was the Z4M that it beat around the track as well as the RS4. The Z4M is not a heavy car which negates your statements as well. And finally, my point being that the new M3 is going to do everything the 335i can do but better and faster.

The RS4 has received so much praise in the last couple years for the simple fact that Audi finally did something right. Here was a car that most people expected to be about as good as all previous Audi sports sedans and yet it was refreshing and surprising to get something that was actually good. The M3 on the other hand has to live up with so much hype that is hard to please reviewers that get their expectations very high even before driving the car.

Jason

[13eastie]

Originally Posted by ottomobeel

It also beat out the M6 in that very test did it not? How does that square with your propeller shaped badge?

The VA track is a short track which favors lighter cars apparently, unless you're ready to say the 335i is faster in most circumstances than an M6? Someone also called into question the method in which the heavier cars were warmed up due to the physics of weight, tires/air pressure and hot lapping, the rules of their tests favored lighter cars due to the way they warmed each car up. This likely affected the M6 in this test as well.

But let's get real here. The RS4 has bested BMW's best efforts., this new M3 And for those who don't realize this, the RS4 might only be a 2.5 year old car, but it sits on a 6+ year old chassis. Why not just give credit where it's due?

I am sure the BMW M3 is a great car, it's OK to be 2nd place, the RS4 has received almost unanimous praise over the last several years for a very good reason. There's nothing to be ashamed of.

Originally Posted by ottomobeel

I guess it will be a long haul for you guys until the CSL comes out, I almost feel bad for you

For only your second post, you really have managed to lurch between an amazing number of topics without actually dealing with any of them. In conceding that the 335i beat the RS4 at VIR (and frankly I couldn't give a monkey's) you respond by dissing the M6

Most sensible members are pretty objective about the manifold merits of the RS4. The problem with people like you is that your mind has been made up before you have seen any good objective information on the M3 (and you are content to disregard what there has been so far).

Why don't you bide your time, bite your tongue for a bit and reduce your chances of making a fool of yourself...

[ottomobeel]

I have no idea, I found this site from a blog post. I don't visit forums and ironically I also own a 325xi, so I wouldn't consider myself an Audi troll. I wouldn't have posted had I not seen the citation of the 335 Virginia track result, I think that article was very misleading. Whenever you throw a dozen cars into the mix and run them all around a particular track and spit back numbers you're going to get weird results. The (corrected) Z4M behind the 335 is clearly an anomaly, as is the RS4.

The 335 is a great car btw, I drove it and liked it very much. Had to have the AWD so went with the 325xi for my wife.

Anyway, all these cars are different shades of excellent, so just enjoy what you want to enjoy, and for now the RS4 keeps top honors. I am sure this battle will rage on for a long time to come

[Damage Inc]

Originally Posted by GregA

Please note BMW is going Audi way.

M vs S, and CSL / CS vs RS.

In fact the badges / cars are positioned (also price wise) like this: S < M < RS < CSL/CS.

M cars will be positioned & designed to attract more customers then ever. While CSL models will be pure aficionado cars. That's the fact. And such decision was necessary due the increased competition. If M cars were too hard core, only aficionados would buy them - not good for the business. So, M goes more mainstream, while CSL/CS will please aficionados, and preserve BMW image as "Ultimate Driving Machine".

Btw, every M / CSL model will also get unique personality & identity. Some will be more raw and hardcore than others (eg. Z4M & M1 vs M3 & M6).

Regarding E92 M3: the car is very capable, and be sure to test drive it. Then all your doubts will go away.

+1
I posted a similar conclusion a while back as well. BMW is making room for another line of cars on the "top end" - CSL, while also making room for the 135 on the "bottom end".

Face it, the M3 has evolved into a different type of car then the first gen. To be honest, I doubt many people on this board (including myself) would want to drive the first gen type as a DD.

When I'm driving around in my E46 M3 I think of it as a GT "tuned for the track". Not a track car tuned for the street. More of the same with the E92 M3.

[ottomobeel]

Originally Posted by JEllis

You make statements about the M6 yet it wasnt in that test so get your facts straight. It was the Z4M that it beat around the track as well as the RS4. The Z4M is not a heavy car which negates your statements as well. And finally, my point being that the new M3 is going to do everything the 335i can do but better and faster.

Jason

You're right, it was the Z4M, my mistake.

In any case its still a pretty big slew of cars in that roundup. I think the Autocar Weekly review holds some weight though, you're right I've not driven the new M3, but I would trust the author as he's a professional racer and an M fan. And no, I'm not anti-M or anti-BMW. I own both brands and hold both in higher regards than MB.

[jworms]

let me guess, this review is just like the auto express one in that it doesn't provide anything but an opinion and no performance facts to back it. am i right?

[absoluteis350]

Lets take this all into perspective people.

Arguing which is the better car (..RS4..-just joking to egg the fanboys on) is like arguing which of 2 hot supermodels you'd like to nail. In either case, you have an awesome piece of tail which is just as pleasurable as choosing the other. They are slightly different but both are amazing 'rides'

And enough with the VIR 335 v RS4 comparo already.. the problems with it have been pointed out all over the place and should be obvious to any impartial observer.

[ottomobeel]

Originally Posted by absoluteis350

Lets take this all into perspective people.

Arguing which is the better car (..RS4..-just joking to egg the fanboys on) is like arguing which of 2 hot supermodels you'd like to nail. In either case, you have an awesome piece of tail which is just as pleasurable as choosing the other. They are slightly different but both are amazing 'rides'

And enough with the VIR 335 v RS4 comparo already.. the problems with it have been pointed out all over the place and should be obvious to any impartial observer.

Well said, choosing between the two cars is an embarrassment of riches. And I'm glad there's someone else capable of seeing the problems of the VIR test.

[Damage Inc]

Oh, and dont forget, controversy sells magazines so keep that in mind with a cover like that

[kem]

You can't just follow the different companies naming schemes and equate RS4 to CSL, the CSL was a track focused machine much like a GT3. The car had no stereo, aircon and no power anything.