C63 vs m4

[Darth Federer]

The funniest and saddest part of this video is the very beginning when they list the carbon emissions output right alongside the other performance specs. I mean when you're buying a car like this who cares about that nonsense? The brainwashed and indoctrinated? I'd say if that sort of thing is a concern to a potential buyer then that buyer is looking at the wrong car. Regardless, this seems like a step back in performance and a step up in bragging rights to the fellow brainwashed and indoctrinated. I don't know about everyone else but I paid my huge gas guzzler tax when I bought my car. Isn't that kinda like carbon offset trading to the people who would be upset at cars like my NA V8 being allowed on the road. This just seems like compromise for all the wrong reasons.

[spotshooter]

It's the M5 all over again. Reaffirms the purchase of my E92.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by Darth Federer

The funniest and saddest part of this video is the very beginning when they list the carbon emissions output right alongside the other performance specs. I mean when you're buying a car like this who cares about that nonsense? The brainwashed and indoctrinated? I'd say if that sort of thing is a concern to a potential buyer then that buyer is looking at the wrong car. Regardless, this seems like a step back in performance and a step up in bragging rights to the fellow brainwashed and indoctrinated. I don't know about everyone else but I paid my huge gas guzzler tax when I bought my car. Isn't that kinda like carbon offset trading to the people who would be upset at cars like my NA V8 being allowed on the road. This just seems like compromise for all the wrong reasons.

Originally Posted by spotshooter

It's the M5 all over again. Reaffirms the purchase of my E92.

Amen to both.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

I prefer an N/A motor too, but the M's are still pretty special, they have a ton of goodies that the 335 doesn't, including CF parts, a different motor, transmission and suspension

Motor is a tuned N55. That and most of the other differences are all bolt on. LSD would be tougher, and I suspect the dct and manual will be about the same whether in M or non-M.

Bottom line is that low revving turbo motors are not special. I don't care if every one of them is assembled of pure unobtainium in a champagne bath illuminated by bioluminescent plankton by eunuchs. I'd rather they bought standard corvette motors and stuffed them in. They're commodity engines. It's even worse for the M5/M6: they could literally toss in a CTS-V motor instead and no one would even notice and performance wouldn't change.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Ezio

there are days when i come home. when i say to my self maybe i am the one whos fuked up not liking these powerful trubo engines. then when i sit down on my couch, open my latop to read the forums. when i find professional car reviewers say things that i also feel. i then feel i am not fuked up after all. just seeing a about to be last gen C63 AMG being loved more than the newest M3. it really says somthing about this era we are entering. it sucks

Ezio, I think you forgot to mention "when I sit on my couch, with my arm around the shoulders of my S65..."

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

It's not that the new M is bad. It's just no longer special. It's only a souped up 335i.

What drew me to M was how special they were. The sound and unique high Rev and instantaneous, almost telepathic throttle response. This is what separated them from the crowd. Clearly they're more comfortable joining the crowd. The special is gone and I'm gone with it. I'll keep my E90 until it must go, then find something else special.

+1

It's made my decision easier - E90 M3 rather than F80, then it will be a P car of some description.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by paddy335

Ezio, I think you forgot to mention "when I sit on my couch, with my arm around the shoulders of my S65..."

Rofllllll

[Liberation]

Glad I didn't let the opportunity to grab my RS5 slip away while I was thinking I should wait for the M3/4. That V8 and my E46 M3 is such a perfect pair.

Really disappointing to say the least after watching this review.

[///McRae]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

It's not that the new M is bad. It's just no longer special. It's only a souped up 335i.

What drew me to M was how special they were. The sound and unique high Rev and instantaneous, almost telepathic throttle response. This is what separated them from the crowd. Clearly they're more comfortable joining the crowd. The special is gone and I'm gone with it. I'll keep my E90 until it must go, then find something else special.

This^^^.

[Koldun]

The priority for this generation was city torque and fuel economy, the top two criticisms of the outgoing model. For every enthusiast/purist bemoaning the ever softer offerings from M, there are a hundred pedestrians clamoring for fuel economy and low-end torque. I've lost count of how many M owners on this forum have expressed disleasure with having to shift down from D7 and/or do more than feather the trottle to get going from a stop. Most of those people bought the car solely for the badge's notoriety, and seeing as they are the bulk of M's customer base, their wishes are the ones M heeded.

And improving those things was fine, since this car is supposed to be a well-rounded daily driver too, and in that respect, the new car is undeniably better. Sadly, in every other way, it's a compromise. Turbo throttle response sucks, let's engineer a way to make it almost as good as the old one. Electric steering sucks, let's engineer a way to make it almost as good as the old one. Car sounds like shit, let's add a synthesizer that sort of kinda sounds like a v8. I guess M was happy to rest on their E9x laurels, since rather than try to surpass it in every way, they just focused on making it not worse while being cheaper to make.

So now the M3 is the ultimate poser machine, just another 3-series with a different trim level, so you can brag to that 335 guy in the office about how you spent so much more money for basically the same car.

[M3-S65]

Originally Posted by Koldun

The priority for this generation was city torque and fuel economy, the top two criticisms of the outgoing model. For every enthusiast/purist bemoaning the ever softer offerings from M, there are a hundred pedestrians clamoring for fuel economy and low-end torque. I've lost count of how many M owners on this forum have expressed disleasure with having to shift down from D7 and/or do more than feather the trottle to get going from a stop. Most of those people bought the car solely for the badge's notoriety, and seeing as they are the bulk of M's customer base, their wishes are the ones M heeded.

And improving those things was fine, since this car is supposed to be a well-rounded daily driver too, and in that respect, the new car is undeniably better. Sadly, in every other way, it's a compromise. Turbo throttle response sucks, let's engineer a way to make it almost as good as the old one. Electric steering sucks, let's engineer a way to make it almost as good as the old one. Car sounds like shit, let's add a synthesizer that sort of kinda sounds like a v8. I guess M was happy to rest on their E9x laurels, since rather than try to surpass it in every way, they just focused on making it not worse while being cheaper to make.

So now the M3 is the ultimate poser machine, just another 3-series with a different trim level, so you can brag to that 335 guy in the office about how you spent so much more money for basically the same car.

Truth ^^^
I am glad this occured...because the good news is we own the real deal. The ICON.
They can drive their fart can, emissions focused, fake sounding M3s....
Ours will retain their value and become historical performance legends.

[F1Venom]

Originally Posted by Lucrecio84

If the next gen c63 really is v8tt, then this car is doomed already

Have you driven the new biturbo V8 AMG's? Believe me, they do not disappoint. As for me, I'd choose the C63 507 over an M4 easily. I think my E90 ZCP M3 is the best looking, but the C63 is way better than the M4.

[driftflo]

Originally Posted by chillp

The solution is to keep your e92! With the right exhaust and a few other mods, you'll have better sound than a C63 (IMO), similar straight line performance, and kick its butt on the track ;-) Plus you'll have a classic with better looks (again, IMO)

s65 and m156 simply sound different! both is great v8 sound but you simply cannot compare them. i love both... m156 is rougher, deeper... s65 is more agressive, racecar-like.

same straight line performance like a performance packaged (what is a must in my opinion) m156 out of a (still na, no fi added) s65 is an illusion. the na m156 still has more torque at low revs than the m4 engine... and way more than the s65! i doubt that a 4.4 or even 4.6 stroker will outperform the 487hp/600nm m156. and this engine can be easily upgraded to ~550hp only with a little software upgrade.

track performance is where the e92 definitely beats a c63 easily. and the throttle response (mentiond in the video) is simply perfect on the s65 (and also s54). the m156 is better than a turbo for sure, but not as sharp as the "old" m3 engines!
this kind of response i have only driven/felt in a gt3 besides the m!

Originally Posted by Liberation

That V8 and my E46 M3 is such a perfect pair.

add a c63 and you will have a perfect line up ;-)

[driftflo]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

Have you driven the new biturbo V8 AMG's? Believe me, they do not disappoint.

definitely! although i drove it in the wrong surrounding (ml) the engine is not bad indeed. still sounds like a v8... still has 5.5l (c63 will get a 4l)... still is a unique engine and not a tuned standard one.
i am... or better was no merc fan. but the w204 c63 is a hell of a daily driver and i got weak... and didnt regret it one day so far. and the new w205 (or lets say the new engine it will get) at least seems more promising to me than the m4 one!

[F1Venom]

I remember an year or so back when there were rumors of the M3 having a tri-turbo. That would've made it special.

[driftflo]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Truth is this new turbo engine probably addresses the majority of buyers more than the S65 did. Maybe not the majority of us forum dwellers and enthusiasts, but prospective buyers. It's more stunning in the looks department, modern gadgetry, and the speed sensation arrives more immediately. I remember when the E9X first came out and guys at the dealer told me that test drivers were often more impressed with the 335 than M3. They revved both to 5k rpm.

i am really curious if the m4 will be sold well. i ordered a new e92 but i surely will not order an f80 nore would i change my e92 for one. i am planning to keep both, e92 and c63 for a long time!

but if you look at porsche, i would also not have ordered a 996... but a whole lot of people did! and also a lot of enthusiasts kept and still have their 993 cars and wouldnt trade them for any new porsche. it was the end of an era... and now comes the end of the huge na engines.

[JRV]

Originally Posted by driftflo

i am really curious if the m4 will be sold well. i ordered a new e92 but i surely will not order an f80 nore would i change my e92 for one. i am planning to keep both, e92 and c63 for a long time!

but if you look at porsche, i would also not have ordered a 996... but a whole lot of people did! and also a lot of enthusiasts kept and still have their 993 cars and wouldnt trade them for any new porsche. it was the end of an era... and now comes the end of the huge na engines.

I feel like its not a replacement either but rather a brand new model...maybe peeps should keep their E9X M3 and try the M4 so its like getting a totally different M

[AlteredBe4st]

Originally Posted by M3-S65

Wait ...the M4 sounds like this....

I used to own a Dodge SRT4 even this POS car that cost around 12k now....sounds better STOCK than the new M4...!!!

Lmao

[lukester]

Want mid range torque? Get a 220HP 125d like I do use as a daily driver.
Want emotions? Get a natural aspirated V8 or a GT3 RS.

The new M3/M4 engine is a disappointment. See and here the test mules a lot driving
around Munich. Don't don't turn your head around like you do when you
hear a V8 roaring down the street. Sometimes you don't even hear that a new M3/M4
is driving somewhere.
Sounds like any other 2l or 3l Turbo boring thing you hear like 50 times a day.

[surewin]

I wish that the comparison was at least taken place on a longer stretch of canyon road instead of a very small closed road. Autocar used the same small to review the F80.

Timed laps around a circuit would be ideal to get an objective comparison of overall performance. This particular review seems more subjective, emphasizing the sound of the cars more than anything else.

The new M4 doesn't sound very nice and I won't be selling my car for one, but it is undeniably fast. Chris Harris tweeted on May 15th:

"M3/4 stat. Portimao lap 2mins 2.86 sec. 4.5 seconds faster than E92M. Unofficially, just 1sec slower than a GT3 (assuming 997)."

I feel like the F80/F82 will still be faster around a track than the new C63. We'll have to see when the reviews with objective lap times come out.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by tinman831

In the video, the brake discs are cracked like crazy. Is that normal? You can see it at 2:55

Ceramics....yes.

Originally Posted by surewin

The new M4 doesn't sound very nice and I won't be selling my car for one, but it is undeniably fast. Chris Harris tweeted on May 15th:

"M3/4 stat. Portimao lap 2mins 2.86 sec. 4.5 seconds faster than E92M. Unofficially, just 1sec slower than a GT3 (assuming 997)."

I feel like the F80/F82 will still be faster around a track than the new C63. We'll have to see when the reviews with objective lap times come out.

Nothing that an E9X blower won't take care of.

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I was talking to my girlfriend the other night, and was lamenting the fact that BMW is piping in pre-recorded engine sounds. She said, "that's kinda messed. A lot of people listen to their engines b/c the sound tells you a lot about what's going on with the car. If something isn't right, it sounds different. When they're playing fake engine noise...."

Out of all the complaints about the fake noise, I never thought of it that way before. She def. earned a bit more respect from me after that observation.

[happos2]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Out of all the complaints about the fake noise...

You get the complaint a lot? You gotta try harder!

For real now - never thought of it that way... interesting point!