Announced: BMW M3 CRT Lightweight Sedan with 450hp @ 3,483 Pounds!

[jeff@autocouture]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Agreed.

BMW actually does make this seat, There was a press release a while back about the seats and the hood

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by Studntloan

BMW actually does make this seat, There was a press release a while back about the seats and the hood

Doesn't matter. This is like replacing the aluminum hood with CF. You save 5lbs and spend couple thousand dollars... Useless way of spending money on weight reduction. It is like using inconel for an axel-back exhaust and charging 4k$ it. It is maybe 1lb lighter than titanium, but for 2x the cost.. pointless. So I much rather buy Recaro seats, which are still very light and save bunch of money... or spend extra money for full akrapovic system to get good weight reduction.. better use of money.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Studntloan

BMW actually does make this seat, There was a press release a while back about the seats and the hood

Exactly, here it is: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511119

Originally Posted by erhanh

Doesn't matter.

It does matter since somebody said BMW wouldn't make this seat which is wrong. If it's worth it in terms of costs vs benefit is another point. That's why BMW can only use it for a special edition like this, but the idea is also to give a glimpse at tech and materials that will become more affordable down the road.


Best regards,
south

[BoostedE90]

Does it look like BMW used KW coilovers?

[biglare]

Originally Posted by BoostedE90

Does it look like BMW used KW coilovers?

Yes!

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by southlight

It does matter since somebody said BMW wouldn't make this seat which is wrong. If it's worth it in terms of costs vs benefit is another point. That's why BMW can only use it for a special edition like this, but the idea is also to give a glimpse at tech and materials that will become more affordable down the road.


Best regards,
south

Thanks for the correction

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by erhanh

Doesn't matter. This is like replacing the aluminum hood with CF. You save 5lbs and spend couple thousand dollars... Useless way of spending money on weight reduction. It is like using inconel for an axel-back exhaust and charging 4k$ it. It is maybe 1lb lighter than titanium, but for 2x the cost.. pointless. So I much rather buy Recaro seats, which are still very light and save bunch of money... or spend extra money for full akrapovic system to get good weight reduction.. better use of money.

The cost vs benefit is a very good point to bring up.

[southlight]

We knew it before:

Due to the very limited worldwide volume, the BMW M3 CRT will not be homologated for sale in the USA.


Best regards,
south

[jeff@autocouture]

Originally Posted by southlight

Exactly, here it is: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511119



It does matter since somebody said BMW wouldn't make this seat which is wrong. If it's worth it in terms of costs vs benefit is another point. That's why BMW can only use it for a special edition like this, but the idea is also to give a glimpse at tech and materials that will become more affordable down the road.


Best regards,
south

Thanks now it's great BMW offered this and made there own seats, and like south said it's to show what is goig to be coming in the future of BMW and m division, have you ever seen the oem recaros that come in audis? There amazing but made by recaro, I think it's great that BMW is offering something like this. Even though we aren't getting them it shows lots of promise for the future. Now the one thing I don't like about them is there's no cutout if you wanted to install a harness. Regardless this car is worth te premium over any special edition BMW has made to date, look what it includes and add what it would cost to put these in a stock m3, the cost will be more to put these parts in especially if you consider the engine that comes with this car

[SCOTT26]

Once again the usual rules apply if you do not have the vin number of the GTS or indeed the CRT you will not get access to purchase the exclusive accessories for these cars.

You might say that this is a work in progress... There is of course plenty more that can be added but usual marketing applies that it cannot be too exclusive or else no one would buy it.
Of course we are thinking about it for further cars - Such lightweight solutions are being tested on the new M5 cars that are still disguised as an M car prototype always has something else going on which you cannot see.

But this is at the cusp of the programme - CFRP is becoming more cost effective and more available since BMW have built their own facility to mass produce it. So we are at the early stages of what is possible now and a taster to show what can happen in the near future.

In regards to stripped out M3's in North America?
Whilst some might crave the idea of such a car? You are in a minority and unfortunately that minority would not support the costs of federalisation as US BMW customers see the M3 as a Performance luxury vehicle. And no one will give up their luxuries such as power seats etc for such a more lightweight concept.
One such piece of evidence is how over the years a majority of US M3 customers have forgone the CFRP roof for the sunroof option.

[Polarcharger]

I have an M3 that weights 3,175 lbs. They made it in 1998 and nobody ever called it "lightweight" (and I'm thinking its carbon content is 0%).

I must be an old fart.

[GewoW]

PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS,
PLEASE SELL THESE SEATS

please

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Once again the usual rules apply if you do not have the vin number of the GTS or indeed the CRT you will not get access to purchase the exclusive accessories for these cars.

What is the reason for not selling certain parts to 'regular' M3 owners? I don't think BMW is selling this at loss.

[Bluesummer]

now thats a ZCP or a 4 door Coupe Sport Lightweight

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Once again the usual rules apply if you do not have the vin number of the GTS or indeed the CRT you will not get access to purchase the exclusive accessories for these cars.

You might say that this is a work in progress... There is of course plenty more that can be added but usual marketing applies that it cannot be too exclusive or else no one would buy it.
Of course we are thinking about it for further cars - Such lightweight solutions are being tested on the new M5 cars that are still disguised as an M car prototype always has something else going on which you cannot see.

But this is at the cusp of the programme - CFRP is becoming more cost effective and more available since BMW have built their own facility to mass produce it. So we are at the early stages of what is possible now and a taster to show what can happen in the near future.

In regards to stripped out M3's in North America?
Whilst some might crave the idea of such a car? You are in a minority and unfortunately that minority would not support the costs of federalisation as US BMW customers see the M3 as a Performance luxury vehicle. And no one will give up their luxuries such as power seats etc for such a more lightweight concept.
One such piece of evidence is how over the years a majority of US M3 customers have forgone the CFRP roof for the sunroof option.

Translation:

The M brand will continue to move its focus more towards comfort and luxury amenities because that is what is what sells in the 60k + price range. BMW cannot and will not attempt to compete with the likes of Porsche in the focused performance car segment, but rather focus on products that line up directly with the likes of Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. Our top performance products will continue in the direction of being more accurately defined as muscle cars than sports cars, and our engines will have little to distinguish them from the competition as has been shown with the new M5 engine being a near exact copy of the engine from the '08 Audi RS6 .

BMW will always try to hold just enough of an edge over the competition in the "sportiness factor" to maintain its historic motor sports reputation, but not too sporty to the point of risking the loss of customers looking for the ultimate in luxury and comfort.

My advice:

Since BMW has clearly conceded to Porsche in the 50-100k focused sports car segment, offer more sports cars in the price range of the 1M that focus purely on performance and light weight. If you sell a focused sports car at 35-50k your buyers will not expect the same unnecessary garbage like sunroofs, nav, 20 speakers, power seats, excessive sounds insulation, etc. that current M3 drivers need to justify the purchase price.

And you do realize if BMW offered the 1M with the S65 engine this statement would no longer apply "US BMW customers see the M3 (or 1M) as a Performance luxury vehicle." BMW would sell them faster than they could build them especially if the car was offered with no luxuries. That sounds like a real modern day E30 M3 to me!



All the core BMW enthusiasts such as myself really want is for BMW to hold onto the long help philosophies of the M brand in at least a one or two small cars.

Offer something that is stick shift, lightweight, and has a high revving naturally aspirated engine. A super high tech aluminum block evolution of the Inline 6 built along the lines of the S54 would be ideal, but even a similar evolution of the Inline 4 to follow up the S14 would be fine so long as the vehicles it is placed in are light enough to be stupid fast and fun!

Put this engine maybe in both a future Z2 and M2 that is sparse in luxury, and CFRP intensive... fuel economy would be plenty good and sales would explode. Last time BMW followed this strategy it seems to work quite well.

Here is some motivation for the road ahead:

[aus]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Once again the usual rules apply if you do not have the vin number of the GTS or indeed the CRT you will not get access to purchase the exclusive accessories for these cars.

You might say that this is a work in progress... There is of course plenty more that can be added but usual marketing applies that it cannot be too exclusive or else no one would buy it.
Of course we are thinking about it for further cars - Such lightweight solutions are being tested on the new M5 cars that are still disguised as an M car prototype always has something else going on which you cannot see.

But this is at the cusp of the programme - CFRP is becoming more cost effective and more available since BMW have built their own facility to mass produce it. So we are at the early stages of what is possible now and a taster to show what can happen in the near future.

In regards to stripped out M3's in North America?
Whilst some might crave the idea of such a car? You are in a minority and unfortunately that minority would not support the costs of federalisation as US BMW customers see the M3 as a Performance luxury vehicle. And no one will give up their luxuries such as power seats etc for such a more lightweight concept.
One such piece of evidence is how over the years a majority of US M3 customers have forgone the CFRP roof for the sunroof option.

That's just disgusting. Didn't know that. No wonder we don't get anything fun.
Can you please explain how Porcshe is able to bring over very limited run cars and still make money? Cayman R, GT3, GT3-RS, GT2 and of course the GT2-RS?
What sells cars in the US, is great magazine reviews, and I'm sure a lighter weight, sharper handling M3 with real brakes and coilovers- even with the stock engine- would get rave reviews and it wouldn't cost $160,000 to make.

.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by aus

[/B]

That's just disgusting. Didn't know that. No wonder we don't get anything fun.
Can you please explain how Porcshe is able to bring over very limited run cars and still make money? Cayman R, GT3, GT3-RS, GT2 and of course the GT2-RS?
What sells cars in the US, is great magazine reviews, and I'm sure a lighter weight, sharper handling M3 with real brakes and coilovers- even with the stock engine- would get rave reviews and it wouldn't cost $160,000 to make.

.

If I remember correctly, BMW is far more profitable than Porsche.

[Erhan]

Originally Posted by aus

[/B]
Can you please explain how Porcshe is able to bring over very limited run cars and still make money?
.

This is the question I want to ask every time someone from BMW says it wouldn't be profitable to bring cars like GTS... I always feel like they mean it wouldn't be as much profitable as we want.

I sometimes hope Porsche makes a car in the M3 segment, and kills it...

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

If I remember correctly, BMW is far more profitable than Porsche.

It's the other way around. Porsche is more profitable, or at least it has been for the recent past.

[crackberry]

Originally Posted by erhanh

This is the question I want to ask every time someone from BMW says it wouldn't be profitable to bring cars like GTS... I always feel like they mean it wouldn't be as much profitable as we want.

I sometimes hope Porsche makes a car in the M3 segment, and kills it...

hmmmm...maybe like a baby panny?

Originally Posted by HBspeed

It's the other way around. Porsche is more profitable, or at least it has been for the recent past.

I think porsche makes almost 30k per 911 they sell and bmw makes around 3k per car they sell.

[Totti]

I don't see how not getting carbon is 'disgusting', personally. I live in a sunny state. I will benefit from a sunroof 99.99% more, on average, than shedding 44 pounds with carbon.

I also have a black car, making the contrast even less noticeable, so again even aesthetically it loses out.

If I got a different (and more noticeable) contrasting colour such as white, or red. i'd go carbon. But that would be more for cosmetic benefit, not performance.

[iceman335]

I have a feeling that the F3x m3 might use this engine(tuned to 470-480hp with close to 9000rpm redline)...

Just a guess....