1st to 2nd grind at high rpm

farbarg · 01-27-2009, 11:40 AM

Folks,

Hopefully someone who understands modern manual gearboxes can help me out. Very rarely I'll get a fairly severe grinding trying to shift into second (I don't complete the shift into second when this happens). This has only happened when shifting at higher rpm's when in first gear, above 5k. Each time I've had the clutch all the way in (but am not double clutching). It has never happened from lower RPM first to second gear changes, and never happened between any other gear pairs.

I'm not very worried; it's very rare (only twice in 8k+ miles). However, if anyone has any ideas about how/why it happens, that would be great. I've driven manuals for about ten years now, and have attended multiple AutoX's in my prior car. So I don't believe I'm doing something wrong, but open to suggestions

lvwirelessguy · 01-27-2009, 11:42 AM

2nd gear synchro?

elm3 · 01-27-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farbarg

Folks,

Hopefully someone who understands modern manual gearboxes can help me out. Very rarely I'll get a fairly severe grinding trying to shift into second (I don't complete the shift into second when this happens). This has only happened when shifting at higher rpm's when in first gear, above 5k. Each time I've had the clutch all the way in (but am not double clutching). It has never happened from lower RPM first to second gear changes, and never happened between any other gear pairs.

I'm not very worried; it's very rare (only twice in 8k+ miles). However, if anyone has any ideas about how/why it happens, that would be great. I've driven manuals for about ten years now, and have attended multiple AutoX's in my prior car. So I don't believe I'm doing something wrong, but open to suggestions

Maybe shifting before the clutch is all the way in? (shifting too fast) I know I get that sometimes whenever I shift to quikly for the clutch on my truck.

PunjabiM3 · 01-27-2009, 12:20 PM

Happens to me once in a while when I am shifting close to redline. I think it is because I am trying to shift too fast. Either that or because the throw is a bit on the long side. I never experienced this problem on my e46 M3 or my 997 (that gearbox is a dream comapred to BMW units). I too have been driving manual now for over 10 yrs.

farbarg · 01-27-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elm3

Maybe shifting before the clutch is all the way in? (shifting too fast) I know I get that sometimes whenever I shift to quikly for the clutch on my truck.

Hmmm. Each time the grind occurred, the clutch pedal was on the floor, but it's true that I don't have a clear memory of what happened before. So, maybe first gear came out without the clutch fully engaged, and the clutch was finishing engagement as I tried to put it into second. Definitely going to be very deliberate in the future to ensure that is not the case.

MrAdams · 01-27-2009, 07:13 PM

It's happened to me a couple times. I dodn't wanna say anything because I thought you guys would call it inexperience

But I just take about .5 seconds longer on my 1st-2nd gear shifts and no more grind

JC919 · 01-28-2009, 03:58 AM

Like every other sportscar w/a manual box you must learn to drive the car.

gr8000 · 01-28-2009, 04:06 AM

Thank God I have a DCT so I don't worry about these issues!! DCT FTW!!!

I thought I'd just let this off my chest as a DCT owner! All these DCT threads whereby 6MT guys jump in with constructive comments such as "oh, I am glad I got a 6MT", or "DCT is rubish", or "6MT FTW" etc? Well payback time for DCT owners!!!

Okay, flame suit on now...

izzy · 01-28-2009, 05:09 AM

Revs + low gear = high centifugal force
slamming the gearstick into second at 8000rpm in 1st means that the little magic bits in your box are spinning faster than at any time in any other gear. It has less to do with the power of the engine and more to do with the high revs.
Try this simple fix.
Insert clutch.
Say "one mississippi"
Change gear and release clutch.
Lose .01 of second on your race between the robots and make it home without tearing your gearbox in half.

Big Windy · 01-28-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr8000

Thank God I have a DCT so I don't worry about these issues!! DCT FTW!!!

I thought I'd just let this off my chest as a DCT owner! All these DCT threads whereby 6MT guys jump in with constructive comments such as "oh, I am glad I got a 6MT", or "DCT is rubish", or "6MT FTW" etc? Well payback time for DCT owners!!!

Okay, flame suit on now...

Leave 6MT out of this!!! This has to do with the driver, not the tranny

GT3 Tim · 01-28-2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

2nd gear synchro?

+1

As an asside....in my GT3, I had a third gear synchro going bad. I had an extended warranty on the car, so I went through them. Instead of just replacing the synchro, they gave me a new factory tranny flown in from Germany! That phucker was nearly 12K. lol. I couldn't believe they did that, but was a happy camper! Thank God for the extended warranty! lol

kbk_75 · 01-28-2009, 10:10 AM

Hmmm...I've done that twice in around 10,000 Kms as well. Both times I assumed I was just being over-zealous and trying to switch faster than those slow-poke DCT boys!

Now you got me thinking!

daltonnnn · 01-28-2009, 10:10 AM

1st to 2nd for me sucks. Sometimes, its smooth and sometimes it feels like it grinds, no matter what rpms.... Blah.... Rubbish!

MysticBlue · 01-28-2009, 11:01 AM

My previous 2 BMW's did this, M coupe and 330i ZHP. Just had to make sure my 1st to 2nd shifts were a little slower and more deliberate than the rest of the shifts. Never heard of any solutions... It just wasn't possible to shift 1st to 2nd as fast as the rest of the shifts.

BTW, gr8000, I thought exactly the same thing, since I have had to put up with that same "glad I got 6MT" BS line from some idiot every time someone complained about some perceived problem, sometimes not even related to DCT. So, just for the record, I'm glad I got DCT. Paybacks.

Maybe someday the 6MT and DCT tribes can get along, maybe.

Chinchini · 01-28-2009, 01:50 PM

the car doesnt like to go into 2nd unless the clutch is all the way down. Whenever I try to "rip" the 1-2 shift it usually misses. You have to be nice with it. Short shifter helps somewhat but the car just doesnt like to be rushed in 2nd.

elm3 · 01-28-2009, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farbarg

Hmmm. Each time the grind occurred, the clutch pedal was on the floor, but it's true that I don't have a clear memory of what happened before. So, maybe first gear came out without the clutch fully engaged, and the clutch was finishing engagement as I tried to put it into second. Definitely going to be very deliberate in the future to ensure that is not the case.

I did not mean to insult you, hope that you did not take as so...? I was just trying to help. It happens to the best of us... I've been driving a manual tranny since I was 16...

KonigsTiger · 01-28-2009, 02:11 PM

Yep, happens to me also but I blame it on maybe letting the clutch out a tad too soon. I´ve either gotten better and shifting or the gear box has settled. Still happens every once in a while though.

farbarg · 01-28-2009, 03:10 PM

Thanks everyone for your replies. My car was delivered with a few more miles than usual. That's always in the back of my mind, so it's good to hear that others have had similar experiences. Sounds like I should just be a bit more patient on that shift.

Now if my service department would just put in the right amount of oil on an oil change, life would be grand. Ahhh, personal thread jacking.

farbarg · 01-28-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elm3

I did not mean to insult you, hope that you did not take as so...? I was just trying to help. It happens to the best of us... I've been driving a manual tranny since I was 16...

Nope, no offense taken! I was just trying to agree!

DevJ · 01-28-2009, 04:15 PM

same 1st ---> 2nd grind with me!
I thought I was the only one and I didnt wanna post it and someone tell me to 'search' for it lol

It happens around 7500+ RPMs and its only when I shift really fast and hard.
Scared the hell out of me lol

its happened twice to me so far

farbarg · 01-28-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevJ

same 1st ---> 2nd grind with me!
I thought I was the only one and I didnt wanna post it and someone tell me to 'search' for it lol

It happens around 7500+ RPMs and its only when I shift really fast and hard.
Scared the hell out of me lol

its happened twice to me so far

Yup, that's it. Wasn't so much hard as it was fast

But it is scary when it happens.

argonboy · 01-28-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Windy

Leave 6MT out of this!!! This has to do with the driver, not the tranny

Not really. I was getting this quite severely and I know 2 other M3s getting that as well, not severely ONLY when shifting fast. It has happened to me a BUNCH of times with the clutch TO THE FLOOR..

What you can do is wait longer for it to warm up, and shift with 1/2sec between the gears. I've had this happen a 10min after oil and coolant were up to temp.

I've owned 2 other manuals and have driven many, including at 1/4 mi tracks without any sort of grind.

If it happens constantly even after it's well warmed up, I'd have them look at the clutch. They actually replaced mine and it was functioning PERFECTLY except for this and sometimes not letting me get out of gear smoothly. See when you try to pull it out of a gear with the clutch fully in (warmed up of course) if you feel abnormal resistance.

01-27-2009, 11:40 AM	#1
farbarg First Lieutenant 28 Rep 311 Posts Drives: SSII e90 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0)	1st to 2nd grind at high rpm Folks, Hopefully someone who understands modern manual gearboxes can help me out. Very rarely I'll get a fairly severe grinding trying to shift into second (I don't complete the shift into second when this happens). This has only happened when shifting at higher rpm's when in first gear, above 5k. Each time I've had the clutch all the way in (but am not double clutching). It has never happened from lower RPM first to second gear changes, and never happened between any other gear pairs. I'm not very worried; it's very rare (only twice in 8k+ miles). However, if anyone has any ideas about how/why it happens, that would be great. I've driven manuals for about ten years now, and have attended multiple AutoX's in my prior car. So I don't believe I'm doing something wrong, but open to suggestions
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01-27-2009, 11:42 AM	#2
lvwirelessguy Captain 30 Rep 955 Posts Drives: 2011 E92 M3, 2012 Golf TDI Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 702 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2005 M3 [0.00]	2nd gear synchro?
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01-27-2009, 12:20 PM	#4
PunjabiM3 Colonel 253 Rep 2,091 Posts Drives: M5 CS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Flower Mound, TX iTrader: (1)	Happens to me once in a while when I am shifting close to redline. I think it is because I am trying to shift too fast. Either that or because the throw is a bit on the long side. I never experienced this problem on my e46 M3 or my 997 (that gearbox is a dream comapred to BMW units). I too have been driving manual now for over 10 yrs. __________________ 2012 Audi R8 V10TT\| 6MT\| Suzuka Grey 2015 Ferrari 458 Speciale\| Rosso Scuderia 2020 BMW X7\| Mineral White 2024 718 GT4 RS \| Arctic Grey
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01-27-2009, 07:13 PM	#6
MrAdams do a wheelie!!! 154 Rep 929 Posts Drives: E46 M3 - '72 2002 - '65 Impala Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (1) Garage List 2008 M3 Sedan e90 [0.00]	It's happened to me a couple times. I dodn't wanna say anything because I thought you guys would call it inexperience But I just take about .5 seconds longer on my 1st-2nd gear shifts and no more grind __________________ ~Adam
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01-28-2009, 03:58 AM	#7
JC919 Lieutenant Colonel 72 Rep 1,804 Posts Drives: CSL Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland iTrader: (0)	Like every other sportscar w/a manual box you must learn to drive the car.
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01-28-2009, 04:06 AM	#8
gr8000 Major 72 Rep 1,172 Posts Drives: E92 M3 - DCT Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Athens, Greece iTrader: (0)	Thank God I have a DCT so I don't worry about these issues!! DCT FTW!!! I thought I'd just let this off my chest as a DCT owner! All these DCT threads whereby 6MT guys jump in with constructive comments such as "oh, I am glad I got a 6MT", or "DCT is rubish", or "6MT FTW" etc? Well payback time for DCT owners!!! Okay, flame suit on now...
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01-28-2009, 05:09 AM	#9
izzy Private First Class 13 Rep 109 Posts Drives: ///M Coupe Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Johannesburg iTrader: (0)	Revs + low gear = high centifugal force slamming the gearstick into second at 8000rpm in 1st means that the little magic bits in your box are spinning faster than at any time in any other gear. It has less to do with the power of the engine and more to do with the high revs. Try this simple fix. Insert clutch. Say "one mississippi" Change gear and release clutch. Lose .01 of second on your race between the robots and make it home without tearing your gearbox in half. __________________ 8000 RPM, what a feeling!
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01-28-2009, 10:10 AM	#12
kbk_75 Lieutenant 24 Rep 404 Posts Drives: Alpine White E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bombay, India iTrader: (0)	Hmmm...I've done that twice in around 10,000 Kms as well. Both times I assumed I was just being over-zealous and trying to switch faster than those slow-poke DCT boys! Now you got me thinking!
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01-28-2009, 10:10 AM	#13
daltonnnn Driver 17 Rep 505 Posts Drives: F80 M3, MSM, Clubman S Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (2)	1st to 2nd for me sucks. Sometimes, its smooth and sometimes it feels like it grinds, no matter what rpms.... Blah.... Rubbish! __________________ Go Navy! Go SF 49ers!!! Go SF Giants!!! Go Warriors!!!!!
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01-28-2009, 11:01 AM	#14
MysticBlue Lieutenant Colonel 369 Rep 1,887 Posts Drives: '20 M5C, '09 M3 DCT Coupe Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here iTrader: (0)	My previous 2 BMW's did this, M coupe and 330i ZHP. Just had to make sure my 1st to 2nd shifts were a little slower and more deliberate than the rest of the shifts. Never heard of any solutions... It just wasn't possible to shift 1st to 2nd as fast as the rest of the shifts. BTW, gr8000, I thought exactly the same thing, since I have had to put up with that same "glad I got 6MT" BS line from some idiot every time someone complained about some perceived problem, sometimes not even related to DCT. So, just for the record, I'm glad I got DCT. Paybacks. Maybe someday the 6MT and DCT tribes can get along, maybe.
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01-28-2009, 01:50 PM	#15
Chinchini Enlisted Member 5 Rep 44 Posts Drives: 08 E92 Alpine White M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cold Spring Harbor, NY iTrader: (0)	the car doesnt like to go into 2nd unless the clutch is all the way down. Whenever I try to "rip" the 1-2 shift it usually misses. You have to be nice with it. Short shifter helps somewhat but the car just doesnt like to be rushed in 2nd.
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01-28-2009, 02:11 PM	#17
KonigsTiger Racying Dynamics 118 Rep 4,391 Posts Drives: E92M3 RS46 Club Sport, others Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dweller iTrader: (0)	Yep, happens to me also but I blame it on maybe letting the clutch out a tad too soon. I´ve either gotten better and shifting or the gear box has settled. Still happens every once in a while though. __________________ ==================================================
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01-28-2009, 03:10 PM	#18
farbarg First Lieutenant 28 Rep 311 Posts Drives: SSII e90 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0)	thanks Thanks everyone for your replies. My car was delivered with a few more miles than usual. That's always in the back of my mind, so it's good to hear that others have had similar experiences. Sounds like I should just be a bit more patient on that shift. Now if my service department would just put in the right amount of oil on an oil change, life would be grand. Ahhh, personal thread jacking.
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01-28-2009, 04:15 PM	#20
DevJ Colonel 154 Rep 2,736 Posts Drives: R8 V10+/YMB M4 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK iTrader: (1)	same 1st ---> 2nd grind with me! I thought I was the only one and I didnt wanna post it and someone tell me to 'search' for it lol It happens around 7500+ RPMs and its only when I shift really fast and hard. Scared the hell out of me lol its happened twice to me so far __________________ ‘23 RRS First Edition '22 X7 M50i '18 R8 V10+ http://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=133578&d=1204654487[/IMG]
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