Test drove a 2012 Porsche 911S over the weekend, surprised the M3 held up

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Originally Posted by VVG

I would disagree with this statement. I test drove a large number of cars before ordering my 2011 M3, including a 2009 Carrera S. It is not in a "different league". It is, overall, slightly more sporting in it's general character. This should come as no surprise. However, as a performance machine, it is no where near $50,000 better. That's the price difference of a comparably equipped new Carrera S and M3. Cars like the 911 turbo or Nissan GTR are in a "different league".

That said, I have yet to drive any car that provides the performance/practicality balance of an M3. Even as a play toy, which my M3 is for me, there is benefit to some degree of practicality so you can actually use it to do things that entail fun driving. A trip to the grocery store can be fun. Dropping my kids off at activities, then having a "spirited" drive back home on my own can be fun. At the same time, my wife and I can take nice weekend getaways to our vacation home in relative comfort for the 140 mile drive. I can carry a beach chair in the back for those mornings when I want to go for a fun drive near the ocean then sit out and have some coffee while I watch the waves and chill out.

If you buy a car with virtually no practicality, then you will also be very limited in how much you can actually drive it and enjoy it. That's fine if you want a garage queen, but not if you really want to enjoy driving your car.

People on Planet-9 would like to disagree. The Cayman actually has a lot of space. I know this because I was considering the car....before I lost my job.

[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

People on Planet-9 would like to disagree. The Cayman actually has a lot of space. I know this because I was considering the car....before I lost my job.

I made my first Costco run in my Cayman last week, was able to fit a huge package of TP, case of water and all of my weekly groceries without even using the cargo net on top of the engine. There's an amazing amount of space between the two storage areas.
Loving my Cayman as my new DD. The fit/finish of the materials is worlds ahead of the 335 I moved from. The PDK transmission with sport chrono is amazing.

[bernpep]

Originally Posted by Brosef

I agree with this 100%. I've owned both and am currently driving a 2011 PDK C2S while I'm getting some work done on my M. The ONLY thing that is in a different league is the price tag. You need to step up to a GT3 or Turbo to play in a different league performance-wise.

Of course you prefer the M3, you own it. You don't own the porsche

[bholloway]

Originally Posted by shift@red

No, thats not the case. The 997S is just a better performing car all around.

When you get to the turbo, GTx Porsche level, BMW flat out cant even begin to even hold a candle to them.

shift@red is probably one of the few members on this forum that actually has some common sense and a good knowledge of cars. A 911 is a better performing, better driving, and ultimately higher quality car than the M3. To say that you like your M3 because its more practical for storage space, transporting kids etc is one thing. But to say its a better car is simply incorrect.

For whatever idiot that posted that their 2009 911s was going to cost them 50k more than a heavily optioned 2011 M3 was obviously looking at the wrong places to buy a car. I've seen 2009 Carrera S with less than 5k miles going for less than 70k.

The M3 is a great car, but the 911 is better. I love it how people say that the M3 can compete with the Carrera, but its slower in every category and it lacks the most important thing which is driver feel. The M3 has a crazy light clutch and feels like a boat after driving a Porsche. The people who think their M3 drives better than a 911s either need to 1. Actually learn to drive a Porsche and stop pretending like they have 2. Make enough money so they can actually afford a Porsche 3. Take some driving lessons so they can actually understand how to properly drive a car.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by bernpep

Of course you prefer the M3, you own it. You don't own the porsche

that's exactly the point - you're only strengthening my argument. I've owned both, and I traded in my Porsche for the M3 without a single regret.

Originally Posted by shift@red

No, thats not the case. The 997S is just a better performing car all around.

When you get to the turbo, GTx Porsche level, BMW flat out cant even begin to even hold a candle to them.

that's an extremely narrow definition of a league. the M3 is much closer than you would suggest performance-wise, and the fact that there are numerous automotive journalists that pin the two against each other every year clearly supports the notion that they're in the same league. the 911S takes the edge in all performance categories, but only by a narrow margin. and that's exactly what one should expect considering the M3 is a much larger car that's far more practical/versatile. I still firmly believe that the price tag differential is too significant though. you get a lot more car for your $$ with the other cars in Porsche's line-up - with the 911 you're paying a premium for its heritage.

also, I don't know why you decided to repeat what I said about the GTx and turbo cars. I agree that those are in a different league where BMW doesn't even have a car that tries to compete (save for the GTS, which is a joke IMO).