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08-05-2010, 11:03 AM | #24 |
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Really? You some sort of an expert? Does your expertise span the nation or just your region?
Wow thanks for the posting. Very insightful. I wasn't sure about this, but when you wrote "face it" I knew your opinion was, in fact, a universal truth. By the way, I paid cash for my 2011, but I obviously understand the basic tenets of finance much better than you do, so it's hard for me not to weigh in when I read BS. These threads where people assume their preferences are the only ones that make sense are so wearisome. A couple of basic points to ponder that might help understand this a bit better. 1. The cost of money is the cost of money !!! 2. A car is worth what it's worth when you decide to part with it regardless of the way it was initially procured. Ever hear of someone offering to buy the used car for more because the owner paid cash vs financing/ leasing? 3. Keep the discussion at the "apples to apples" level. It's an irritating distraction in a lease vs buy debate to chime in a say "buy used and save the depreciation hit." Really? Wow, we hadn't thought of that. 4. If you understand all facets of leasing and can bargain well, at the end of three years the cost of a leased vs financed vehicle can be identical. In some cases, the absence of a downside (set residual) can mean the lease approach may have reduced total ownership costs. 5. As someone educated and working in finance I have also learned that what there are emotional aspects of a business transaction that often trump the cold hard facts. If one hates having a payment, or "not owning" the vehicle, these things can rightly push one to a different viewpoint, but that doesn't make right for those quite content with a payment, etc. Last edited by BigHat; 08-05-2010 at 11:09 AM.. |
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08-05-2010, 11:12 AM | #25 |
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I think leasing right now is the way to go over buying new most of the time. However, with some brands that don't really have any lease incentives it is not true. With some Porsches (at least in my experience) the cost to buy vs lease is so slim that you might as well own the car. With BMW you get the free maintenance (its not much, but something), you get the knowledge that any minor car door dings etc is covered under your lease, and like someone brought up if an accident happens the CarFax no longer is the big boogie man waiting to get you. Finally, I do not know 100% if this is true, but it would seem when BMW changes their models like they just did in the 5 series that if you owned the car a greater depreciation would hit than if you just leased since many are not going to want the "old version." I could be wrong this is just my personal hunch.
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08-05-2010, 11:14 AM | #26 |
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I couldn't care less about how people pay for their cars with their money, and I bore easily when people start bickering about whether leasing or buying is the better option. (Well, that is until the bickering gets really nasty. ) I've leased, I've bought, and my reasons are my reasons.
My informal observation is that once you subtract the 17 year-olds who pay in cash , the majority of people on automotive forums lease their cars. A lot of them are vocal and defensive about the reason they leased, and they try to blow sunshine up everyone's asses about how leasing is the be-all-end-all and that people who buy are morons. To that minority, I'd point out that there is a reason that car manufacturers offer leases to customers, and it is not so they can make less money on the sale. Having that option lets them sell more new cars more frequently, and they get another chance to make a profit at the end of the lease. Finance guys miss calculating the residual to their favor sometimes, but it is only when a wide scale, unforeseeable economic event occurs. |
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08-05-2010, 11:20 AM | #27 | |
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You are also right about diminished value, but you can sometimes have a battle on your hands during a lease turn-in, so again, fairly much a wash. |
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08-05-2010, 11:23 AM | #28 |
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True like the current recession. BMW is taking it in the pants on used cars now especially the old 5 series coming of leases and M5s with the new ones coming out. Many are not willing to spend as much as they used to on cars. I would say witht he M3 though demands generally maintains itself such that it does not depreciate nearly as much as a 5 or regular 3 series. (Sorry if i am being Captain Obvious with that last sentence).
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08-05-2010, 11:27 AM | #29 | |
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08-05-2010, 11:29 AM | #30 | |
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By the way, I am NOT in favor of leasing, I'm just against citing straw men is an effort to demonize it. As I said, done well, the cost pretty much is going to cost what it costs regardless of method of procurement. In Feb when I was figuring out what to do about my new car, BMW was seriously licking it's wounds. It was my opinion the rates and residuals were robbery and they were trying to get healthy off of new leases. As a consequence, the math led me to buy. Things have improved it appears based on some of the terms I've read about here. I know myself when it comes to cars. Despite thoughts to the contrary on purchase, I pretty much want a new car in three years or so. I also like knowing the total history of MY car so don't feel like buying used -- especially an M car. Of course, buying used and driving it into the ground is the cheaper approach, but so is driving a 10 year Accord. . People that buy "transportation" don't even know this website exists. We all the draw the line differently. I laugh a little when someone shares they "economical" way to own a BMW and that all other approaches are "wasteful." 95% of America that can't dream of owning a BMW probably hold a dimmer view of their assessment of "economical." Last edited by BigHat; 08-05-2010 at 11:42 AM.. |
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08-05-2010, 11:35 AM | #31 | |
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08-05-2010, 11:49 AM | #32 | ||
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Well said. |
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08-05-2010, 11:49 AM | #33 |
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08-05-2010, 11:50 AM | #34 |
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Wow, I am baffled. I agreed with everything you said. I admitted my observation was informal, you used a catchier phrase about yours. I gave you kudos for using the phrase. What are you talking about?
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08-05-2010, 11:52 AM | #35 |
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I'm sorry. I corrected it after I saw it was you. My failure to pick up on the true nature of your point.
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08-05-2010, 11:53 AM | #36 |
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08-05-2010, 11:54 AM | #37 |
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08-05-2010, 12:03 PM | #38 |
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Well, chalk up another successful attempt by the gang to pole vault over the lease vs buy mouse turd.
Gotta run, another thread starting on why the E93 isn't really an M3. Last edited by BigHat; 08-05-2010 at 12:11 PM.. |
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08-05-2010, 12:27 PM | #39 |
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Personally, I think if you are someone who likes to modify their cars extensively I think it makes sense to buy it. Many will argue that they lease them, modify them, take the parts off, turn the car in and sell the parts. When you factor the money spent on labor to install and remove, and the loss you take on the parts when you sell, you would come very close to the same amount of money lost if you were to sell your car after 3 years with all your mods. I lease one of our BMW's and bought my M3. I only bought it because it was an 09' with 645 miles on it and got $20k off the sticker, I was in the market to lease a new one, but this was a good deal so I took it. My useless $.02
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08-08-2010, 01:30 AM | #40 | |
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08-08-2010, 03:08 PM | #41 |
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Is this really anything to even argue about? If you want to lease, lease it. if not, then buy it, finance it, BMW select, whatever else.
I've leased, and I have bought, and I doubt I will lease another car unless its going to be for "daily beater" type use.
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08-08-2010, 11:07 PM | #42 |
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08-09-2010, 11:04 AM | #43 |
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I agree. Best is to buy used and pay for cash or just finance it. Plus you can get a CPO warranty along with it. You get the best of both worlds.
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08-09-2010, 11:33 AM | #44 |
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