P65 Engine on the road.

[DCMETRO22Z]

Hi folks. I found that pic and really fell in love with that P65 racing engine , used in the M3 GT2 race car.

Imagine a Rich guy who decides to swap that engine in a regular M3. Can that engine be used on the road (With minor modifications) or is it a completely racing only engine wich would be Strictly impossible to drive on the road, even with a very Professional swap ?

[bunnn]

Your picture says P60 B40..is P65 another name?

[DCMETRO22Z]

Originally Posted by bunnn

Your picture says P60 B40..is P65 another name?

Oh yeah damn... that's the previous engine.

Any way... Can the engine pictured be used on the road.

[BMW269]

I think it is possible to drive it on the road. It shall just have high emissions and drink much petrol.

[montreal red]

with deep pockets. Anything is possible. But i am sure u will run into lots of problems with respect to state inspections, etc and getting it legalized for road use.

[DCMETRO22Z]

Originally Posted by Levi

I think it is possible to drive it on the road. It shall just have high emissions and drink much petrol.

Originally Posted by montreal red

with deep pockets. Anything is possible. But i am sure u will run into lots of problems with respect to state inspections, etc and getting it legalized for road use.

Whithout any consumption, financial, legal, pollution considerations. On a strictly technical side.

[bunnn]

Granted those conditions, wouldn't it be easier if you simply bought a M3 GT2?(I thought it was GT4?) ...out right through some connections

[J08M3]

It would probably be next to impossible to drive that car smoothly in stop and go traffic and around town. I seriously doubt it's making power smoothly at low RPM's for such driving.

[ss134]

Reliability will be a major issue as well, not to mention the cost of parts. Race engines are designed for racing and after a race they are generally stripped down, inspected and parts replaced as requiered. This would get a bit tedious after a while.
I'm sure technically it would be possible but unless you've got money to burn this idea is not very practical.

[DCMETRO22Z]

Originally Posted by J08M3

It would probably be next to impossible to drive that car smoothly in stop and go traffic and around town. I seriously doubt it's making power smoothly at low RPM's for such driving.

That is exactly what I want to know. You think daily driving at Low RPM would be Impossible or simply very unpleasant ??

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by DCMETRO22Z

That is exactly what I want to know. You think daily driving at Low RPM would be Impossible or simply very unpleasant ??

Unpleasant.

There is really no point to this.

The engine is built to a spec to make power within that spec.

A stroker engine like the RD Sport or even a stock M3 engine supercharged will put out the same amount of power OR MORE and be cheaper to run.

Race engines, as previous posters stated, are rebuilt very frequently and built with race distance in mind.

[BMW269]

The engine is reliable, but on track and high revs. Just look, the M3 GT2 won the 24H Nurburgring.

[DCMETRO22Z]

In fact I find interesting the Flat plane design, allowing the engine to rev better and faster.

Maybe With a custom made ECU, the P65 can be more drivable at low RPM's

[BMW M GT3]

Originally Posted by bunnn

Your picture says P60 B40..is P65 another name?

Gutentag, the BMW Motorsport P60B40 was a very rare engine never mass produced made for racing purpose only! It was designed by Albert Biermann "head of development for BMW's M and Individual divisions". Also it was built in less than six months. The Engine had its first debut in Sebring Florida for team Schnitzer Motorsport and PTG "Prototype Technology Group" at the American Le Mans Series. After the race I saked Bill Auberlin what he thought of the Uber M3 and he said "it is the best BMW M3 he has ever driven!" In 2001 the M3 powered by the P60B40 engine set new standards in the GT classification! BMW having clinched ten races with its P60B40 M3's the cars went on to win both the drivers and constructors championship. The P54B32 M3's also had healthy finishing times. ALMS homologation rules stated that cars must be for sale on 2 continents within 12 months of the regulations being issued, so BMW had some decisions to make. In the end BMW pulled out to retire the P60B40 choosing not to mass produce its Gem, the P54B32 carried on dominating in the curves on the tracks but still lacking the top end torque on the long straight away.

The BMW M3 GTR E46 raced in the USA and in Europe winning many victories, PORSCHE contested because BMW didn’t make a V8 M3 E46 race car, yet. BMW M3 PTG cars had some of the P54 engines powering the race cars and the other cars that looked identical had the P60B40 engine. To the naked eye they looked the same on the exterior of the Factory P54B32 M3 Race cars.

Ok getting back the BMW P65-B40 is the code name for the new and improved BMW FACTORY RACE ENGINE that replaced the official P54B32 in-line six factory racing engine. The now cult engine everyone wants the P60B40 didn’t get to race for more than 9 months here in the USA. BMW had a choice build a minimum of 12 street legal BWM m3 GTR's or withdraw the V8 M3GTR BMW did make 3 street legal BMW M3 GTR's that even had a modified front and rear bumper that looks like the same air scoop design as the factory race car minus the flared wheel arches. The hood was unique for the M3GTR P60-B40 and P54B32 because it was vented but not the same design as the one found on the Factory street car GTR M3. BMW Never mass produced it and canceled the project no spare parts can be found except for what you see at a museum or by one private owner in Australia. The only ones left here in the USA can be found at the MOBIL ONE TRADITION museum, they are not for sale and BMW AG would like them back and for some reason MOBIL ONE TRADITION won’t sell them back to BMW AG.

So now the P65-B40 V8 is the engine you can get your hands on now at Scottsdale Motorsport dot com and it weighs less than the P54B32 inline six. No this motor is not similar to the V8 M5 that engine is larger in length and heavier than the P65-B40.

The P65-B40 Engine versions are as follows:

BMW M3 GTS= S65 engine with parts from the Motorsport division in it.
P65 GT4
P65 GT3
P65 GT2

[BMW M GT3]

A little somthing for all you BMW Motorsport brothers and sisters on here, the P60B40.

With the tiny restrictors removed the motor makes a lot more power. Yes this ALMS BMW AG Motorsport engine was used in the E46 M3 GTR as well as the ELMS.

[Patrón]

Better off buying a bower. If I had the money I'd buy a dinan built race motor with headers and cams. The p motors were built for hours not 100k miles.

[bigjae1976]

They had a P60 engine at the BMW museum in Munich. I spent most of my time there and with the E92 M3 art car.

I heard or read somewhere that the P60 served as the basis for the S65 and S85. True?

[BMW M GT3]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

They had a P60 engine at the BMW museum in Munich. I spent most of my time there and with the E92 M3 art car.

I heard or read somewhere that the P60 served as the basis for the S65 and S85. True?

The BMW AG Motorsport P60B40 official successor was the P65B40. The S65B40 is related but without all the proverbial secret race guts found internally. Dinan street car parts are different than whats found in the BMW AG Motorsport works race engine. Stand alone BMW AG Motorsport EMS systems exist for GT2 and also for GT3 spec race engines, GT2 is reserved for only the works team GT2. However GT3 is for public customer race car program and setup to meet the limiting rules for the GT3 series. For example 515hp produced in the E89 Z4 GT3 with limitations in place, when we remove the limitations 635hp can be seen on an engine dyno from the P65. The BMW AG Motorsport race engine parts are designed to produce results against other major factory race cars in the ELMS and old ALMS now known as TUDOR. You may be confused if you're trying to compare Dinan to the factory works BMW GT2/GTE/GTLM race cars. The GT3 factory produced cars for the customer race car program are the closest private owners can typically come to owning GT2 original works race cars. BMW AG MOTORSPORT does not wish to sell the works GT2 race cars. Hence why the P60B40 was never sold to the public. However BMW did realize a market exists for the customer race car program, especially if you look at what Porsche has done with it's customer race car program. The birth of the E86 Z4 VLN customer race car came to fruition in 2006 and was to be the next BMW NA works team PTG GT2 race car in the ALMS 2007 season powered by the P54B32 producing 435hp standard before PTG modified it with a prototype turbo.

[BMW M GT3]

Originally Posted by BMW M GT3

The BMW AG Motorsport P60B40 official successor was the P65B40. The S65B40 is related but without all the proverbial secret race guts found internally. Dinan street car parts are different than whats found in the BMW AG Motorsport works race engine. Stand alone BMW AG Motorsport EMS systems exist for GT2 and also for GT3 spec race engines, GT2 is reserved for only the works team GT2. However GT3 is for public customer race car program and setup to meet the limiting rules for the GT3 series. For example 515hp produced in the E89 Z4 GT3 with limitations in place, when we remove the limitations 635hp can be seen on an engine dyno from the P65. The BMW AG Motorsport race engine parts are designed to produce results against other major factory race cars in the ELMS and old ALMS now known as TUDOR. You may be confused if you're trying to compare Dinan to the factory works BMW GT2/GTE/GTLM race cars. The GT3 factory produced cars for the customer race car program are the closest private owners can typically come to owning GT2 original works race cars. BMW AG MOTORSPORT does not wish to sell the works GT2 race cars. Hence why the P60B40 was never sold to the public. However BMW did realize a market exists for the customer race car program, especially if you look at what Porsche has done with it's customer race car program. The birth of the E86 Z4 VLN customer race car came to fruition in 2006 and was to be the next BMW NA works team PTG GT2 race car in the ALMS 2007 season powered by the P54B32 producing 435hp standard before PTG modified it with a prototype turbo.

I should also add the external parts make a big difference as well in street S65 vs P65. Everything is designed to work together so a stand alone EMS is needed as well as your maps, dry sump, valves, springs, pistons, rods, cams, crank, motorsport lines and hoses, etc. Everything is designed to handle more friction and pressure. Nothing lasts forever but getting a good 38 hours of brutal abuse out of an engine for a 24 hour race is the typical bench mark.

[Law]

Even if you could get everything legalized for street use, the cost would be hard to justify and you would also potentially run into reliability concerns as race-built engines are only build to last the durations of a race or season.
You'd be better off getting a Dinan stroker and calling it a day.

In the Z4 GT3, the final evolution of this engine yielded the following numbers:
The P65B40 produces a maximum output of 480BHP.
The P65B44 produces a maximum output of 515BHP.

A race-spec S65 (or P65) is hard to justify for street use, even if it could be done. Most of the companies and race cars that ran them did so to meet homologation requirements and selected this engine due to a combination of the base-S65 engine's flat torque curve, linear power band, high specific output, and high revving character (to maximize the advantages of gearing).
Given that the S65B40 in the E9X M3 is the base engine, it already has all of the characteristics of these engines and is street legal.
Essentially, then, the S65 is your street legal P65.


I've compiled some information about race-spec engines developed from the S65 engine.
Please see below thread for more information:
BMW S65-based Racing Engines You've Probably Never Heard Of

[BMW M GT3]

I woukd never endorse the use of an actual race engine on the street. If you enjoy racing on the race track I would recommend BMW AG Motorsport over Dinan any day of the week. The P65B40 HP figures your quoting are not the actual max HP remember it has a restrictor plates as well as air restrictors. The works race engines are designed to meet the rules of the series at that given time, as well as added weight to slow the car down. In both the GT2 and GT3 class you will find this is done. The old FIA spec you have pictured is for the 4.0 E89Z4 GT3 that was modified even more by BMW AG Motorsport with what they call EVO cams as well as a 4.3 liter stroke and the the GT2 class cars got the 4.4 stroke. It's almost as constant as the northern star when BMW AG Motorsport comes out with a new uber quick works race car the intake restrictions get uber tiny courtesy the race rules makers and marshalls. In regards to the GT3 class depends on what part of the world you need to homologate with.

[BMW M GT3]

Originally Posted by BMW M GT3

I should also add the external parts make a big difference as well in street S65 vs P65. Everything is designed to work together so a stand alone EMS is needed as well as your maps, dry sump, valves, springs, pistons, rods, cams, crank, motorsport lines and hoses, etc. Everything is designed to handle more friction and pressure. Nothing lasts forever but getting a good 38 hours of brutal abuse out of an engine for a 24 hour race is the typical bench mark.

Forgot to mention all BMW AG Motorsport race engines are dry sumped from the factory. Makes a huge difference in repair bills from approximately 15k With dry sump vs. 40+k without a dry sump in repairs.