2010 E63 vs. E92 M3/E60 M5 (merc quick review)

[GnokGnik]

I was considering the E-Class. The rear is ugly, I agree...but the rest of the car is magnificent. A true, black-tuxedo wearing comfort cruiser. I would get the E63 any day over the M5, even though both are great cars.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by footie

It's simply that your 'quick' review has holes all through it and no one even remotely agrees with your findings. Given how far off you were to the truth one has to come up to a few possibles, 1: that you never drove the car, 2: that your skill of observations are piss poor at best, 3: your love of a certain brand has clouded your judgement or 4: you were comparing the E63 to the M3 and not the M5 as you claimed.

I'm not going to question your age but you can pick and one of the possibles I listed above because one of them is the truth.

okay the E63 drives like a go kart and has the handling and feel of a GT3 i never drove the car, i dont even have a m3 or a m5, i am drugged 1/2 the time... y'all got it right

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by GnokGnik

I was considering the E-Class. The rear is ugly, I agree...but the rest of the car is magnificent. A true, black-tuxedo wearing comfort cruiser. I would get the E63 any day over the M5, even though both are great cars.

thank you! which is why i said i understand why someone in 40's-50's buying it..

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by footie

It's simply that your 'quick' review has holes all through it and no one even remotely agrees with your findings. Given how far off you were to the truth one has to come up to a few possibles, 1: that you never drove the car, 2: that your skill of observations are piss poor at best, 3: your love of a certain brand has clouded your judgement or 4: you were comparing the E63 to the M3 and not the M5 as you claimed.

I'm not going to question your age but you can pick which one of the possibles I listed above because one of them is the truth.

+1

Posting a review that's informative is one thing, but posting questionable observations with no substance and to make remarks like MB owners have lower standards, or that they are just old black tuxedo wearers makes the OP's agenda pretty clear. I wouldn't mind hearing some honest and real criticism of the car. That would be really worthwhile, imho.

To call the rest of us here (BMW, Jag, MB, and Porsche owners) immature is paradoxical. Esp in context of the OP's choice of delivery, language, and follow-up posts. He even felt compelled to pm me to say I had 'typical merc owner d-bag attitude'

Oh, well. It's become common fare in the "M3 vs." boards. So, no big deal.

Anyway, maybe shchow could post a worthwhile comparison since he's driven the W212 E63 and also owns a M5.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

+1

Posting a review that's informative is one thing, but posting questionable observations with no substance and to make remarks like MB owners have lower standards, or that they are just old black tuxedo wearers makes the OP's agenda pretty clear. I wouldn't mind hearing some honest and real criticism of the car. That would be really worthwhile, imho.

To call the rest of us here (BMW, Jag, MB, and Porsche owners) immature is paradoxical. Esp in context of the OP's choice of delivery, language, and follow-up posts. He even felt compelled to pm me to say I had 'typical merc owner d-bag attitude'

Oh, well. It's become common fare in the "M3 vs." boards. So, no big deal.

Anyway, maybe shchow could post a worthwhile comparison since he's driven the W212 E63 and also owns a M5.

what agenda? omg this is to death man! yah i started with my shitty posts after you guys went to that low level of discussion. my OP was not offending anyone. re-read and u'll realize what i said was, if not accurate, still an opinion that doesnt offend anyone. ur the one who started with the age thing, then started questioning what i own, i even had the decency to entertain ur totally-offtopic questions over PM. i still stand by my opinions on each category. there's waaay too much play in the steering of the car even compared to the m5, transmission had a lag from when i press to when it executes, power is crazy, the exterior is ugly, the interior confused me with the so many knobs layout... what do u want from me? lol my conclusion was i wouldnt buy it, but i definitely see what a 50 year old would buy it. where's my agenda in that?

[MikeG_C63_AMG]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

thank you! which is why i said i understand why someone in 40's-50's buying it..

Buying it and affording it are two different things. I can't imagine many people who are not in that age bracket being able to afford a car in the $90-$100K price bracket who pay a mortgage or even rent. In fact I know a few people who own both C63's and M3's and still live at home with their parents. FAIL

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG

Buying it and affording it are two different things. I can't imagine many people who are not in that age bracket being able to afford a car in the $90-$100K price bracket who pay a mortgage or even rent. In fact I know a few people who own both C63's and M3's and still live at home with their parents. FAIL

okay now ur talking something different. the E63 is an attractive option for someone with a family, likes the power, and luxury of a mercedes. someone who doesnt wanna take his car to the track for instance. but honestly, unless ur stretching ur money, buying a 70k car vs. a 90k car isnt a huge difference over a 5 year financing plan..

ur point is valid though...

[shchow]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

Anyway, maybe shchow could post a worthwhile comparison since he's driven the W212 E63 and also owns a M5.

I'll try and give my detailed assessment...

Power: The E63 had brutal acceleration! Feels like the M5 over 4500rpm all the time. The throttle response was brisk and immediate.

Steering/handling: The steering feedback in the E63 was very precise. There was no "dead" zone. Much more communicative than the CTS-V's feedback. Here, the MB is on par, maybe slightly better than the M5.
When MB replaced the front air suspension with fixed coils, that was the main improvement compared to W211.

Ride: I must say that when I was younger, the stiffer the suspension the better. As I'm getting older, I'm favoring a softer ride. The Sport setting in the M5 is almost unridable, how punishing it is. The E63 I tested did not have the Performance Package. I had it on the stiffest setting and I thought the ride was comfortable and yet stiff; similar to the Comfort setting in the M5. MB did a great job on the suspension.

Transmission: It was difficult to assess the MCT tranny, since I had it in 2nd gear the whole time My limited evaluation was that it was extremely smooth.

Styling: I've never owned an AMG before, but I must say the car looks much better in person. The weakest area would have to be the rear/tail configuration

I wanted to turn off the ESP/stability control during my test drive, but the salesman didn't know how to accomplish this.
I did have the opportunity to drive the E63 hard (I think I scared the salesman ), and I must say that it is better than the M5 pretty much in all categories.
My only complaint about the E63 is that it does not come standard with LSD. It is optioned out in their Performance Package for an extra 9000 dollars US. For the level of car this is, it is unimagineable that LSD does not come standard. And from all indications, the Performance Package makes the suspension too stiff.
In summary, I would have to say that the W212 E63 is the currently the best sports sedan in its class.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by shchow

I'll try and give my detailed assessment...

Power: The E63 had brutal acceleration! Feels like the M5 over 4500rpm all the time. The throttle response was brisk and immediate.

Steering/handling: The steering feedback in the E63 was very precise. There was no "dead" zone. Much more communicative than the CTS-V's feedback. Here, the MB is on par, maybe slightly better than the M5.
When MB replaced the front air suspension with fixed coils, that was the main improvement compared to W211.

Ride: I must say that when I was younger, the stiffer the suspension the better. As I'm getting older, I'm favoring a softer ride. The Sport setting in the M5 is almost unridable, how punishing it is. The E63 I tested did not have the Performance Package. I had it on the stiffest setting and I thought the ride was comfortable and yet stiff; similar to the Comfort setting in the M5. MB did a great job on the suspension.

Transmission: It was difficult to assess the MCT tranny, since I had it in 2nd gear the whole time My limited evaluation was that it was extremely smooth.

Styling: I've never owned an AMG before, but I must say the car looks much better in person. The weakest area would have to be the rear/tail configuration

I wanted to turn off the ESP/stability control during my test drive, but the salesman didn't know how to accomplish this.
I did have the opportunity to drive the E63 hard (I think I scared the salesman ), and I must say that it is better than the M5 pretty much in all categories.
My only complaint about the E63 is that it does not come standard with LSD. It is optioned out in their Performance Package for an extra 9000 dollars US. For the level of car this is, it is unimagineable that LSD does not come standard. And from all indications, the Performance Package makes the suspension too stiff.
In summary, I would have to say that the W212 E63 is the currently the best sports sedan in its class.

at least we agree on one thing, that is it goes to 200 mph in no freaking time

but to ur last statement: if in ur opinion it beats the m5 that doesnt mean it's the best in the class, unless you only consider 2 cars for the class

[stickypaws]

Thanks, shchow, for posting. At least it's written in the English language

I'm thinking of maybe picking up the F10 M5. I know that AMG will dump the N/A motor pretty soon for a TT. It's just a question of when.

I was able to test drive/track the W212 (see my earlier post here) at an abandoned airfield that MBUSA had leased. They did a special no charge invite for AMG owners, and set up a makeshift track. So we were able to go WOT with the cars, toss them into the corners, and hard braking, etc.. I'd like to do that with the M5, and that's why I'd wanted an owner to respond to !xoible's post (and not compare it to the M3 like Footie pointed out.)

I don't recall BMW ever having track day invites for the M series lately, but maybe they will for the F10 promotion.

!xoible, I think the issue here is really in your delivery. Either back off a little with the teen talk and/or quit typing on your iPhone.

Maybe if you had posted in a normal voice (and with your follow-ups) w/o so much exaggeration and flip talk, you'd would have had more street cred with your review.

We aren't 50 year-olds here, but neither are we 15 year-olds. Think about it.

Cheers.


p.s., LSD is a sore point, imho. AMG wants to profit off the P030 package and the LSD is the centerpiece of that package. If you check out the AMG boards, most people who didn't do the expensive P030 option end up getting a Quaife LSD which works great on the E63 diff. But for 97k+ MSRP, the car really should come standard with a LSD.

[MrHarris]

Originally Posted by GnokGnik

I was considering the E-Class. The rear is ugly, I agree...but the rest of the car is magnificent. A true, black-tuxedo wearing comfort cruiser. I would get the E63 any day over the M5, even though both are great cars.

That is true.. if it's the E60 M5. The F10, I'm sure will be a whole different story.

[GnokGnik]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

thank you! which is why i said i understand why someone in 40's-50's buying it..

Are you calling me old

jk

By the way, I am in my 20's, and I would rather own a E63 than a M5. Something about owning a black E-class or S-class .

[a burrito]

Serious slap to the face to all BMW and Mercedes owners out there..

Where is the review buddy?

[shchow]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

I'm thinking of maybe picking up the F10 M5. I know that AMG will dump the N/A motor pretty soon for a TT. It's just a question of when.

I was able to test drive/track the W212 (see my earlier post here) at an abandoned airfield that MBUSA had leased. They did a special no charge invite for AMG owners, and set up a makeshift track. So we were able to go WOT with the cars, toss them into the corners, and hard braking, etc.. I'd like to do that with the M5, and that's why I'd wanted an owner to respond to !xoible's post (and not compare it to the M3 like Footie pointed out.)

I don't recall BMW ever having track day invites for the M series lately, but maybe they will for the F10 promotion.

p.s., LSD is a sore point, imho. AMG wants to profit off the P030 package and the LSD is the centerpiece of that package. If you check out the AMG boards, most people who didn't do the expensive P030 option end up getting a Quaife LSD which works great on the E63 diff. But for 97k+ MSRP, the car really should come standard with a LSD.

BMW offers an M-Driving Experience, AFTER you purchase the car. You go to their Spartanburg facility and abuse all their M cars. Highly recommend it.
I frequent MBworld as well and I have heard that FI is on its way. But my lease on my current car ends May 2010, so the only car available will be the W212 E63. If the F10 M5 would be available, I'd probably get that instead.
As far as LSD is concerned, it is ALMOST a deal breaker for me. I'm still up in the air about getting the P30 package.
About the Quaife LSD, who installs it/how is it installed? Complete differential tear down? Cost?
Anyway, thanks for the information...Will research this...

[footie]

The TT with first be seen on the new M-class (I think) which is due in 2012, after that I believe all models will start to receive the new engine with the final one to get by 2015.

The 5.5LTT will be kicking out 570ps and a shit load of torque so I would imagine by then the LSD will probably be standard.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by shchow

BMW offers an M-Driving Experience, AFTER you purchase the car. You go to their Spartanburg facility and abuse all their M cars. Highly recommend it.
I frequent MBworld as well and I have heard that FI is on its way. But my lease on my current car ends May 2010, so the only car available will be the W212 E63. If the F10 M5 would be available, I'd probably get that instead.
As far as LSD is concerned, it is ALMOST a deal breaker for me. I'm still up in the air about getting the P30 package.
About the Quaife LSD, who installs it/how is it installed? Complete differential tear down? Cost?
Anyway, thanks for the information...Will research this...

The W212 E63 is a beautiful and high performance machine. I definitely think that it's, at the moment, a step up on the E60 M5. I went for a rip in my buddies M5 a few weeks ago and love the power and sound that it has. But the interior is weak compared to the new E and the performance is lacking as well.

I actually contemplated trading my F on the Obsidian E63 with full carbon fiber at the local dealer, but was too upside down. I'm glad I missed out however, as I think the new F10 M5 is going to be equally as beautiful as the current E63 and have a leg up as far as performance as well.

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by shchow

About the Quaife LSD, who installs it/how is it installed? Complete differential tear down? Cost?
Anyway, thanks for the information...Will research this...

I know of several good shops here on the West Coast, but in your area, these guys do installs (they're a sponsor on MBWorld, too): http://www.ttmotorsports.com/

But any good MB tech can do it. The LSD is around $1400 and install is something close to 10 hours.

Here's some reading, and opinions on the pros and cons on a LSD vs the open diff on the E55/E63:

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...e-install.html

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...fe-owners.html

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...-w-quaife.html

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...e-install.html

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

I know of several good shops here on the West Coast, but in your area, these guys do installs (they're a sponsor on MBWorld, too): http://www.ttmotorsports.com/

But any good MB tech can do it. The LSD is around $1400 and install is something close to 10 hours.

Here's some reading, and opinions on the pros and cons on a LSD vs the open diff on the E55/E63:

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...e-install.html

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...fe-owners.html

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...-w-quaife.html

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/w211-a...e-install.html

i thought the 335 guys were buying it close to 2k and with installation it's a 3k-3500 deal.. do u know what's the gearing on that? Quaife LSD is sick

[luckistryke]

Originally Posted by footie

The TT with first be seen on the new M-class (I think) which is due in 2012, after that I believe all models will start to receive the new engine with the final one to get by 2015.

The 5.5LTT will be kicking out 570ps and a shit load of torque so I would imagine by then the LSD will probably be standard.

so the hp war continues....

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

at least we agree on one thing, that is it goes to 200 mph in no freaking time

but to ur last statement: if in ur opinion it beats the m5 that doesnt mean it's the best in the class, unless you only consider 2 cars for the class

I know that is a bit tongue in cheek but 200mph takes forever in big 500bhp sedans. Outside the fact they both have limiters on them 200mph is more theory than reality.

[shchow]

Originally Posted by !Xoible

but to ur last statement: if in ur opinion it beats the m5 that doesnt mean it's the best in the class, unless you only consider 2 cars for the class

Of the 4 sedans that I consider in this class...E60 M5, CTS-V, XFR, w212 E63...
the E63 IS best in class.
The only other car that may arguably take that distinction would be the Panamera. But then it would be where you place your priorities...handling vs comfort/luxury.
If you can name any others, I would be willing to debate that topic...

PS...You can even include the Quattroporte, S6, S8, RS6, whatever Lexus you want to name, Infiniti M45, upcoming M56, Acura RL, any American midsized 4 door sedan you can think of...

[Hans Delbruck]

The new E63 has something in common with the C63.

It's the first time AMG has not only supplied the engine, but chassis engineering as well.

It's a shift toward a more driver-focused car that makes it more competitive with the ///Ms.