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10-09-2012, 12:39 PM | #23 |
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You need to use both hands on the steering wheel! Only watched a little bit of one the videos but I can't see your right hand. You are going to need both hands on the wheel - especially when you are just learning.
BTW - the M3 is a very easy car to drive sideways. Very predictable, linear throttle (and plenty of it) a pretty neutral weight balance and a crapload of caster on the front suspension. I have done skidpad exercises in 911s and they are a bear - you have to be lightning fast and precise on those cars to keep a constant drift angle. |
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10-09-2012, 12:58 PM | #24 | |
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When you're in a "tail spin" or an oversteer situation, getting completely off the gas actually shifts weight to the front and removes more grip from the rear thus making it unnecessarily hard to counter up front. And notice I didn't say "gun it to the floor," I said keep a constant and steady throttle...And in some situations adding a little more throttle may actually help, especially in a rear wheel driven car. I actually don't think Skip Barbar's instruction is the BEST way to recover, especially if you completely jump off the throttle. I think the best way to recover or continue the "drift" is to not go completely opposite lock, since doing so you completely remove one of the available tools to recover. The best way to continue the "drift" or recover is to use a combination of hands countering on the steering wheel, AND modulating the throttle in response to the amount of recovery to keep velocity through the turn. When you do go full opposite lock AND get off the throttle is the last resort, IMO. Actually, the BEST way to recover is to anticipate the spin and initiate slight countersteering just before the rear end steps out.
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10-09-2012, 01:47 PM | #25 | |
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If I stayed on the gas, I probably would have never recovered. Once the cars back in control you can get back on the gas. However if you are always in control, you can stick to what you mentioned. Either way, wet skidpads are an awesome way to get better at car control. Once you get it down in the wet, dry tarmac is cake.
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10-09-2012, 02:36 PM | #26 |
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^^ fancy driving there
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10-09-2012, 03:09 PM | #27 |
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Firstly full credit to Besiktas for posting and RadiantM3 for great vid and advice. I've already posted once, but I have to have another crack...drifting in general in IMHO is all about feel and practice and there is no one way of doing it and no you cant learn by reading comments on the internet! I've gone from full throttle to full brake and back to throttle again on track and stuck it, especially in the wet...practice practice practice! Cheers stu Baby drift: |
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10-09-2012, 03:44 PM | #28 | |
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10-09-2012, 08:15 PM | #29 | |
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10-09-2012, 09:17 PM | #30 |
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I had an ex-formula drift guy instruct me at the one drift practice I did. Even he had trouble keeping my car sideways because the car is that damned good. I have a DCT. Your only option is to just overpower the rear wheels which takes quite a bit of speed in the M3.
What really helped me was starting to think about things a little differently. When the back end starts comes around, your front wheels should be pointed in the direction that you intend to travel in. So now you are steering the car with the throttle by allowing the car to oscillate around the front wheels. When I saw this FD guy drift my car he only touched the steering wheel in transitions. Otherwise it was all throttle. He also said to keep the car sideways we had to be going a lot faster. The drift area wasn't quite big enough to safely do that. Now when I break the back end loose on the track my hands are off the steering wheel letting the back end go and making sure the front wheels are pointed in the right direction. The hard part is figuring out when to catch the wheel. I can't really explain that...I just do it. The key is you have to anticipate...otherwise you've got a tank slapper.
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10-09-2012, 11:00 PM | #31 | |
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1. Power oversteer while exiting a corner for example, requires getting off the throttle while countersteering to restore grip to the spinning rear tires. 2. Trailing throttle oversteer due to lifting off the throttle in a corner because you get nervous, requires carefully getting back on the gas while you countersteer, in order to transfer weight back to the rear drive wheels. Note that TTO is harder to correct because you are going faster than in example 1 above, and you have already panicked by lifting off just before the slide started. With power oversteer exiting a corner you feel more in control. |
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10-09-2012, 11:39 PM | #32 | |
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10-10-2012, 08:59 AM | #33 |
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I can correct when the rear gives out, i had to several times on track, but i just cant maintain the drift. I wonder if there is a place i can practice legally. (without signing up for track time)
Video Below is from session with rain on wet track, many people went off the track, i had to work hard to keep the car straight. more videos on http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=756000
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10-10-2012, 03:04 PM | #34 |
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Hi
Great vid from the track looks like good fun! Nothing like a good track day. Plenty of practice to be had in the local industrial estate on a wet sunday for 1 and 2 second gear slides, the big round about's (we call them) for turn trucks are perfect! And no one around, however, anything beyond low speed 2nd gear on road your a nutter - too many lamp posts and curbs! Plus doing track time you can wind up all your mate in their fancy cars who never drive them! Cheers stu |
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10-11-2012, 09:00 AM | #35 |
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I realized that during the skidpad attemps, i had the steering in normal mode and not sport. i was wondering why i was getting so little output with so much input turning the wheel.
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10-11-2012, 11:58 AM | #36 | |
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As for drifting M3 - it's very much possible, but gets expensive quickly. I'm not good at it mainly because I do not practice anything but recovery, but many from our lapping bunch mastered it pretty well (starts at 0:55): [u2b]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jTuLBo4Vb4s[/u2b] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=jTuLBo4Vb4s |
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10-11-2012, 12:11 PM | #37 | |
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With 414hp on tap, just try it on a dry surface. And, once you get drift going, maintain the drift with (counter-)steering and modulating (increase, decrease, increase, decrease, etc) the throttle.
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10-11-2012, 01:50 PM | #38 |
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not to suggest that i didnt watch your videos, but i think the stills that come up for your videos suggest one major change right off the bat:
you need to keep your hands both on the wheel. ideally at 9:00 and 3:00. the shenandoah skidpad is pretty broad and shouldnt require any hand shuffling. in the second picture, you can see your left arm is across your body, palm up, not holding the wheel, and your right hand is nowhere to be found. with only one hand on the wheel, palming it around in circles, you're going to have a lot of trouble controlling the car and training your muscles to make hand movements of the correct magnitudes. i definitely don;t intend to discourage you, but it's difficult to comment on technique at this point. have you ever had an instuctor sit with you on the skidpad? with good real-time critique, it's possible to cram a whole lot of car control learning into a short time on a wet pad. Last edited by fourtailpipes; 10-11-2012 at 01:56 PM.. |
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10-11-2012, 03:04 PM | #39 |
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Point taken. both hands on wheel No i didnbt have instructor, i just wanted to give it a shot between the sessions, wasnt really trying crazy hard just wanted to give a shot.
I probably need to drive with instructor next time
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10-11-2012, 03:21 PM | #40 | |
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...and lets not call these failed attempts. perhaps a little misguided (or unguided i guess) but everyone's first trip to the skidpad is ugly. just try to put in more good efforts on the skidpad, you you'll see huge improvements in your driving on the track. Last edited by fourtailpipes; 10-11-2012 at 03:55 PM.. |
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10-13-2012, 08:02 AM | #44 | |
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