BMW adds 5w30 to M engines oil list

[dparm]

Originally Posted by spool twice

This may be off topic, or may be I'm losing my mind, but has anyone else notice a slight increase in fuel economy from switching to M1 0-40 and also better throttle response?

You aren't crazy. M1 0w40 is around 15% thinner in operation, meaning there is less "drag" on the engine. That would equate to faster revving and better fuel economy + power.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by spool twice

This may be off topic, or may be I'm losing my mind, but has anyone else notice a slight increase in fuel economy from switching to M1 0-40 and also better throttle response?

I've read on this forum someone experiencing or stating that it's a possible side effect. I don't understand.... Def looking for an elaboration but ur evidence is an interesting sign.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 325rider

I've read on this forum someone experiencing or stating that it's a possible side effect. I don't understand.... Def looking for an elaboration but ur evidence is an interesting sign.

Here's the elaboration...

You can treat the HTHSV (high-temp high-shear viscosity) as the oil's true operational viscosity since it best approximates the oil's temperature in the most important parts of the motor. HTHSV is measured at 150 C/302 F -- and the oil is probably running even hotter than that in some areas.

TWS has an HTHS of 5.4 when it's fresh out of the bottle. Mobil 1 0w40 has an HTHS of 3.8 when it's fresh out of the bottle. That means M1 0w40 is 30% thinner than TWS.

Here's a good real-life example: if you buy a milkshake, it's fairly thick and you have to work pretty hard to suck it up the straw, right? But if you buy a Coke (thinner than a milkshake) and put it in an identical cup and use an identical straw, it's a lot easier to suck up that straw. This is an exaggerated example, but the same thing is happening here. The motor is not working as hard to fight the oil's viscosity! That equates to faster revving, better gas mileage, and more power!

Hopefully that makes sense.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by dparm

Here's the elaboration...

You can treat the HTHSV (high-temp high-shear viscosity) as the oil's true operational viscosity since it best approximates the oil's temperature in the most important parts of the motor. HTHSV is measured at 150 C/302 F -- and the oil is probably running even hotter than that in some areas.

TWS has an HTHS of 5.4 when it's fresh out of the bottle. Mobil 1 0w40 has an HTHS of 3.8 when it's fresh out of the bottle. That means M1 0w40 is 30% thinner than TWS.

Here's a good real-life example: if you buy a milkshake, it's fairly thick and you have to work pretty hard to suck it up the straw, right? But if you buy a Coke (thinner than a milkshake) and put it in an identical cup and use an identical straw, it's a lot easier to suck up that straw. This is an exaggerated example, but the same thing is happening here. The motor is not working as hard to fight the oil's viscosity! That equates to faster revving, better gas mileage, and more power!

Hopefully that makes sense.

yea makes total sense and was my gut instinct. If the oil is working less I suppose the motors would be dyno'ing stronger on 0w 40 etc... ?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 325rider

yea makes total sense and was my gut instinct. If the oil is working less I suppose the motors would be dyno'ing stronger on 0w 40 etc... ?

In theory, yes. Problem is that it's probably still within the dyno's margin of error.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by dparm

In theory, yes. Problem is that it's probably still within the dyno's margin of error.

Yea true. That's interesting though, I guess it could only free power...
Gotta decide I think I may try the switch. Won't be a warranty problem from what I understand

[dparm]

Originally Posted by 325rider

Yea true. That's interesting though, I guess it could only free power...
Gotta decide I think I may try the switch. Won't be a warranty problem from what I understand

That's correct, BMW allows LL-01 oils now.

[swifty]

Guys, I took my 2013 M3 in for it's first service and they checked to see if BMW has changed their policy for current generation. Unfortunately BMW is still saying 10w60 for M3.

Is there anyway to show to them the new service bulletin? Is the new policy on their site? Mind you I'm in Canada. I suppose it's too late as they are doing the service now.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by swifty

Guys, I took my 2013 M3 in for it's first service and they checked to see if BMW has changed their policy for current generation. Unfortunately BMW is still saying 10w60 for M3.

Is there anyway to show to them the new service bulletin? Is the new policy on their site? Mind you I'm in Canada. I suppose it's too late as they are doing the service now.

You're in Canada? Perhaps we need to have some people who have been to US and Canadian dealers both chime in. Interesting.
Att this point I don't ever want to go back to the dealer for "Free" oil changes. I rather do them myself or watch a mechanic do it. They will never drive my baby away ever again. Think about how many ice cold rips around or revs they take in all M cars. Fvck them

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by swifty

Guys, I took my 2013 M3 in for it's first service and they checked to see if BMW has changed their policy for current generation. Unfortunately BMW is still saying 10w60 for M3.

Is there anyway to show to them the new service bulletin? Is the new policy on their site? Mind you I'm in Canada. I suppose it's too late as they are doing the service now.

Which oil would you prefer instead? As TWS 10-60 is still the standard recommended oil for your car and is a genuine BMW "part", most dealers will use that unless you tell them otherwise.

Just because LL-01 oils are now approved doesnt meant hat dealers will start carrying all LL-01 certified oils and give you a choice.

[325rider]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Which oil would you prefer instead? As TWS 10-60 is still the standard recommended oil for your car and is a genuine BMW "part", most dealers will use that unless you tell them otherwise.

Just because LL-01 oils are now approved doesnt meant hat dealers will start carrying all LL-01 certified oils and give you a choice.

Yea, I guess you can't ask for sh!t or supply your own oil lol…

[Z K]

I mixed Redline 0w40 with Redline 10w60. No noticable difference but the mix makes for something thinner than straight 10w60.

Just pouring the two oils, the 0w40 went down easily. The 10w60 was like pouring heavy weight gear oil... it's real thick!

[swifty]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

Which oil would you prefer instead? As TWS 10-60 is still the standard recommended oil for your car and is a genuine BMW "part", most dealers will use that unless you tell them otherwise.

Just because LL-01 oils are now approved doesnt meant hat dealers will start carrying all LL-01 certified oils and give you a choice.

First this thread title is about BMW adding "5w30 to M engines oil list."

If they don't carry it yet, that's another matter. I spoke to the Master tech there and he wasn't even aware the 5w30 is acceptable for any of the M cars. He actually took the time to look in their system. Mind you again this is coming from the BMW master service tech in one of the busiest dealership in Ontario.

Just spoke to the service tech at the dealership downtown and they said they started using 5w30 in all the regular cars though.

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by dparm

You aren't crazy. M1 0w40 is around 15% thinner in operation, meaning there is less "drag" on the engine. That would equate to faster revving and better fuel economy + power.

Perfect, I was wondering. I guess that makes sense. By an increase in fuel economy, I mean 1.7 mpg higher on my last tank, same city driving cycle, and throttle response is crisper, nothing substantial, but noticable. I didn't expect this type of "side-effect" from a switch in oil weight, but I'll take it

[nyc4runnin]

mobil 1 0w-40 FTW !!!!

[spr]

So what is the ultimate reasons to change or not change from 10/60? I drive my car very hard in the canyons (harder than most track and see high oil temps) so I don't want to lose any protection for a slight increase in mpg. Thanks.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by spr

So what is the ultimate reasons to change or not change from 10/60? I drive my car very hard in the canyons (harder than most track and see high oil temps) so I don't want to lose any protection for a slight increase in mpg. Thanks.

I suggest you go back and read through the thread (and the countless other oil discussions).

The short answer is that the 0w40 has better flow characteristics at all temps and carries heat away better than TWS.

[spr]

There should be an ultimate conclusion pasted to the beginning. I don't have time to read 300 posts.

Originally Posted by dparm

I suggest you go back and read through the thread (and the countless other oil discussions).

The short answer is that the 0w40 has better flow characteristics at all temps and carries heat away better than TWS.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by spr

There should be an ultimate conclusion pasted to the beginning. I don't have time to read 300 posts.

There is no ultimate conclusion as opinions vary. Only you can read through this thread and the countless others to draw your own conclusion.

[dparm]

Also, it's not my job to spoon-feed people who need instant gratification. There is a lot of theory behind oil choice, and we discuss that in the thread.

[tinman831]

Originally Posted by nyc4runnin

mobil 1 0w-40 FTW !!!!

Just put in Mobil 1 into the engine today. So far the engine hasn't exploded and it's running smooth as silk. We'll see how the test results look like at the next oil change.

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by swifty

If they don't carry it yet, that's another matter. I spoke to the Master tech there and he wasn't even aware the 5w30 is acceptable for any of the M cars. He actually took the time to look in their system. Mind you again this is coming from the BMW master service tech in one of the busiest dealership in Ontario.

This outcome shouldn't be a surprise. I thought it had already been established earlier in the thread that thus far, the switch from TWS 10W-60 only to also allowing LL-01 oils was a BMW North America only change. To the best of my knowledge, the 10W-60 is still the only approved oil everywhere else in the world for naturally aspirated M engines such as the S65.

I don't know that anyone has a great explanation for why BMW NA changed this, and no other countries did, although given that the majority of the blown S65 engines seem to have occurred in the US, and I would guess it is their money paying for any under warranty claims, they may have felt this change was warranted. This is pure speculation on my part, though.