BMW NA Approves New S65 Engine Replacement Due to Bad Rod Bearings

[M2Crew]

If you're not the original owner nor purchased CPO from a BMW dealer, don't hold your breath on any sort of goodwill.

[loudog3114]

I'm buying a 2013 CPO today with 32k on the clock. Anyone hear of any reports of this happening after the 2011 change to the design? I think I will send a sample to Blackstone just to be safe.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by loudog3114

I'm buying a 2013 CPO today with 32k on the clock. Anyone hear of any reports of this happening after the 2011 change to the design? I think I will send a sample to Blackstone just to be safe.

Impacts all years. You are no safer than other years. The redesigned bearings with no lead after 2011 also make blackstone even less predictive. Several threads on here where guys had clean blackstones and then lost their engines shortly thereafter.

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by loudog3114

I'm buying a 2013 CPO today with 32k on the clock. Anyone hear of any reports of this happening after the 2011 change to the design? I think I will send a sample to Blackstone just to be safe.

save your money, drive and enjoy your car!

[Spyderman2011]

Found this on YouTube about which motor oil to use for M3. What do u guys think do u agree ?

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Spyderman2011

Found this on YouTube about which motor oil to use for M3. What do u guys think do u agree ?

Don't over think the oil. Use 10w60 and move on. There isn't enough evidence showing one oil is better for the bearing issue than another. I view the S65 as a race engineered engine so i listen to race teams and use what they recommend.

[Eau Rouge]

Originally Posted by Spyderman2011

Found this on YouTube about which motor oil to use for M3. What do u guys think do u agree ?

I will say this:
1. If I were where winter temperatures were subfreezing, a 5W 50 winter oil would be what I'd go with IF the car was going to be driven which it wouldn't be thanks to a winter beater getting the duty.
2. Move to Florida where you can run 10W 60 year round without viscosity concerns.

As for the video, it raises questions i.e. Can rod bearings incur excessive wear thanks to 10W 60 oil being too thick during cold starts/driven in sub-freezing temperatures? How many engines that have had excessive rod bearings' wear or worse been subjected to the aforementioned conditions?

[jaehshim]

Originally Posted by Uber///M

Don't over think the oil. Use 10w60 and move on. There isn't enough evidence showing one oil is better for the bearing issue than another. I view the S65 as a race engineered engine so i listen to race teams and use what they recommend.

exactly.

I understand where they are coming from, the reasonings and doing these silly tests, but what about the 98% of the time when the car is driven in cold when engine temp is 210 and above? did they forget about how those alternate oil becomes so much thinner than the recommended 10w60 when these motors are at optimal temp?

there's a reason why BMW put 10w60 oil since long ago as their official m oil (e39 m5, e46 m3, e90 m3 etc), and there's also a reason why they put a movable rpm redline so you understand when the engine is at optimal temp to push the rev.

Do a proper warm up of engine when cold, hit it when the oil has reached its proper temp and 10w60 will take any rpm at its ideal temp.
this goes to all cars no matter what oil they run in the winter...don't think your 0w40 oil will survive winter because it will cause as much damage with thinner oil at 210+ temp during the 95% of your ACUTAL drive

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Eau Rouge

I will say this:
1. If I were where winter temperatures were subfreezing, a 5W 50 winter oil would be what I'd go with IF the car was going to be driven which it wouldn't be thanks to a winter beater getting the duty.
2. Move to Florida where you can run 10W 60 year round without viscosity concerns.

As for the video, it raises questions i.e. Can rod bearings incur excessive wear thanks to 10W 60 oil being too thick during cold starts/driven in sub-freezing temperatures? How many engines that have had excessive rod bearings' wear or worse been subjected to the aforementioned conditions?

I haven't seen any evidence that more bearing failures occur in colder climates. Failures seem to happen in every climate with every driving condition/style. ///M Power-Belgium is the recorder of evidence with bearing failures and if ANYONE could accurately show bearing failure as it relates to climate, he'd have the info.

[Eau Rouge]

Originally Posted by Uber///M

I haven't seen any evidence that more bearing failures occur in colder climates. Failures seem to happen in every climate with every driving condition/style. ///M Power-Belgium is the recorder of evidence with bearing failures and if ANYONE could accurately show bearing failure as it relates to climate, he'd have the info.

Neither have I and the fact that failures have not created a pattern suggests to me that the failures are something like a lottery. Either yours will or won't fail; not the most comfortable feeling, but it is what it is.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Uber///M

I haven't seen any evidence that more bearing failures occur in colder climates. Failures seem to happen in every climate with every driving condition/style. ///M Power-Belgium is the recorder of evidence with bearing failures and if ANYONE could accurately show bearing failure as it relates to climate, he'd have the info.

Uber///M You received a PM...

[Cosmo Kramer]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

exactly.

I understand where they are coming from, the reasonings and doing these silly tests, but what about the 98% of the time when the car is driven in cold when engine temp is 210 and above? did they forget about how those alternate oil becomes so much thinner than the recommended 10w60 when these motors are at optimal temp?

there's a reason why BMW put 10w60 oil since long ago as their official m oil (e39 m5, e46 m3, e90 m3 etc), and there's also a reason why they put a movable rpm redline so you understand when the engine is at optimal temp to push the rev.

Do a proper warm up of engine when cold, hit it when the oil has reached its proper temp and 10w60 will take any rpm at its ideal temp.
this goes to all cars no matter what oil they run in the winter...don't think your 0w40 oil will survive winter because it will cause as much damage with thinner oil at 210+ temp during the 95% of your ACUTAL drive

^^^THIS

I use my M3 in the winter, its cold startup is 90% of the time is in my garage just above freezing temperatures. I don't rev my car past 2500-3000 rpm until the oil temperature is above 75 deg C on the gauge. One thing to note, even if it is below freezing outside once my car warms up the oil temperature runs between 90-100, same as it does when the weather is much warmer. So once the engine is up to temperature viscosity needs to be on spec regardless of the outside temperature.

[UPSROD]

All of you guys seem to forget (and/or only see the 60w) when cold the oil is only 10w...no matter how cold!

[grantwoodOK]

Well F^&K this just happened to my car yesterday. 70,000 miles dealer maintained, bought from the dealer who maintained the car here in Edmond OK.

I have emails out to the attorney's representing the Class Action against BMW but have yet to hear back.

Currently car is at an independent BMW Mechanic. He will not touch the engine due to this well known issue. He's advising to take it to BMW and work with them on the repair.

What are your thoughts guys on the next course of action?

[xander_g]

Have it towed to the dealer and contact the service manager and set up a face-to-face meeting.

[Aboutcars]

Originally Posted by loudog3114

I'm buying a 2013 CPO today with 32k on the clock. Anyone hear of any reports of this happening after the 2011 change to the design? I think I will send a sample to Blackstone just to be safe.

a. Blackstone oil test is absolutely useless even for 2008-2011 engines. Elevated levels of copper has never correlated - not once - with a subsequent S65 engine failure. People on this forum just seem to never fail spreading misleading advice.

b. the problem isn't rod or main bearings, but that BS has gone massively viral for the last 5 years so that even if BMW said tomorrow the problem is not RB it's <%%%%>, people in this forum will still talk about RB and blackstone.

[shimmy23]

Originally Posted by Aboutcars

a. Blackstone oil test is absolutely useless even for 2008-2011 engines. Elevated levels of copper has never correlated - not once - with a subsequent S65 engine failure. People on this forum just seem to never fail spreading misleading advice.

b. the problem isn't rod or main bearings, but that BS has gone massively viral for the last 5 years so that even if BMW said tomorrow the problem is not RB it's <%%%%>, people in this forum will still talk about RB and blackstone.

so what's the problem then? as much as you hate people spreading BS, what is your input other than "no that's not the issue"

[admranger]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

so what's the problem then? as much as you hate people spreading BS, what is your input other than "no that's not the issue"

I agree Shimmy. Just stating it's not the problem without providing an alternative hypothesis with objective evidence to back it up.

[Aboutcars]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

so what's the problem then? as much as you hate people spreading BS, what is your input other than "no that's not the issue"

your mistake for making a short minded assumption. I was heavily involved with engine failures on this forum and elsewhere ages before you even had an account . Presuming from a profile at time T tells you nothing about someone but makes you look arrogant and green.

[shimmy23]

Originally Posted by Aboutcars

b. the problem isn't rod or main bearings, but that BS has gone massively viral for the last 5 years

Originally Posted by Aboutcars

your mistake for making a short minded assumption. I was heavily involved with engine failures on this forum and elsewhere ages before you even had an account . Presuming from a profile at time T tells you nothing about someone but makes you look arrogant and green.

Assumption? Where did I make an assumption? You said it was BS and I merely asked what your input was and your opinion.

Your post count and join date is irrevelant to the value you bring to this forum.

Was honestly looking for your opinion on the matter. No arrogance here... You act like you have a chip on your shoulder or something?

[STC]

Great to hear BMW taking cares of these.

[wildwestm3]

So, why are the Blackstone Lab reports useless? They simply relay the amount of various metals in the oil. Their analysis inputs (acceptable averages if you will) are based off of thousands of BMW's in the year/model range tested. If the bearings are wearing improperly, you will see an upward trend in the amount of metals in the oil right? It will start out as increased amounts of lead, and then copper once you get to that level on the bearings. Once copper levels go up, I would think you may consider changing b/c they are clearly worn to that level. Now...I can see the report would be useless if you do it just once, but the whole idea is to look at trending. I'm no expert, but I'm not ignorant as to why I have the reports done. What am I missing (serious question...)?