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06-01-2014, 07:38 AM | #1 |
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What to do, to build an S65?
Ive tried reading through countless threads and putting all the information together, and its great stuff to read, but not easily accessible and good for quick reference.
If we could stay on topic, eliminate bias, and offer reasonable solutions to what I would like to accomplish, that would be great. The basics: 4.0L S65 built for mild boost increase/ mildly increased HP (over stock motor limits)/maximum reliability ( 12PSI ~650rwhp ) The constraints: $10,000 for motor/fuel system parts ONLY (disregard cost of labor, method of boost, transmission, gauges, etc) 1. CR. how low do we go? 11.5, 10.5, 9.5? Personally prefer to stay closer to stock as it should be easier to hit target goals without too much compromise. 2. Heads. Seems to breathe well enough already, worth touching? 3. Cams. I dont see why as it already revs high enough, but any thoughts? 4. Crank. Who what and why 5. Rods. ^ 6. Pistons. ^ 7. Valves. ^ 8. Springs. ^ 9. Bearings. ^ 10. Gasket. ^ 11. Studs/bolts/ ancillary items ^ 12.Fuel system components. All? It would be great if when responding, we knew exactly who currently offers the components, the specs in which they are preferred, and price. This should make it easy for everyone to know what is involved. Last edited by Verify; 06-01-2014 at 07:46 AM.. |
06-01-2014, 09:40 AM | #2 | |||||||||||||
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http://www.s65dynos.com/showDyno.php?recID=498 Quote:
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I've helped at least five people build engines by spec'ing the parts for custom engine builds and helping them order. I'm not a business and I only do this to help people out. If you need help, let me know. Last edited by regular guy; 06-01-2014 at 09:48 AM.. |
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06-01-2014, 10:59 AM | #3 |
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The bare essentials:
Custom Mahle pistons: $2600 Carrillo Rods: ~$2200 OEM Bearings: $330 Full gasket sets with head gaskets: ~ $1400 (OEM) Valve Springs: $450. Total: ~7000 parts only. Add ~ $2k for fuel system. |
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06-01-2014, 02:45 PM | #5 | |
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Good stuff with that post. as for CR, why would the goals not be attainable? the higher CR the more power it will make. or are you suggesting that its not low enough to be safe on 93 octane? I should also note, im not so much worried about psi, as the HP is the intended result, be it 10 or 20psi (exaggeration) You also say OEM bearings, why not the WPC ones? Last edited by Verify; 06-01-2014 at 02:58 PM.. |
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06-01-2014, 03:06 PM | #6 | |
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WPC bearings are OEM bearings + the WPC treatment. I don't know the price of the treatment, but I think it's about an extra $130-$140 for the full set of bearings. I would recommend it, but didn't know the prices exactly. I suggest to contact Auto Talent for pricing as they handle a lot of WPC treated bearings. |
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06-01-2014, 08:42 PM | #8 |
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Do this^ with LC pistons and TT that thing! im guessing it will cost around 4k to 5k more then a SC kit, But Way Way better!
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06-02-2014, 02:36 AM | #9 |
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ok, im compiling part #s and current prices now to make this easier. ill probably send to to RG to put into a better layout (i like his style)
I first would like to know more about CR from others that are well versed. i still think 10.5 is too low for staying 4.0 L but would like more input. Next we need to know what is needed for the fuel system. |
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06-02-2014, 09:01 AM | #11 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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06-02-2014, 09:17 AM | #12 |
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This is a great thread, thanks for putting this together.
I am definitely considering building my engine, in preparation for either the Harrop SC or the Gintani TT. Since I have never built an engine before, a thread like this is great for those to learn what is required, and how much it will cost so they can start saving. What about sleeves? Subscribed!
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06-02-2014, 06:46 PM | #14 |
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Compression means little when you can control the boost. Meaning if you cut a point off the compression it is not going to run much different because you can control the timing and boost. If you have too much compression you will hit a wall where you just cant run any more boost no matter how much timing you retard. It is a bad idea to retard timing anyway because it makes the cylinder less efficient and increases heat on the head of the exhaust valve.
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06-02-2014, 08:07 PM | #15 |
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Can you please post some links? I just went to the VAC site and it shows $139 for rod bolts and $179 for head studs. That sounds way too low to me. So links to what you saw would help sort this out.
The ARP2000 material looks like a really good material. Had this been available when i was building my engine, I would have used this instead of making our own. Kawasaki, any comments on the ARP2000 material? |
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06-02-2014, 08:43 PM | #16 | |
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06-02-2014, 08:43 PM | #17 | |
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You need to click on the product that you wish to look at. There you will see that the low prices are not for an S65, but an M10, S14, etc. Once you click "S65" the proper price will appear. |
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06-02-2014, 09:21 PM | #18 |
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06-02-2014, 09:23 PM | #19 | |
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Thx. |
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06-03-2014, 06:43 AM | #20 |
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Maybe a problem in an alcohol engone but I wouldnt worry about that in a gas engine. Many racers use them. We do not run them for rod bolts but have many fasteners on the engine that are subject to water and fluids and have never had a problem. The big reason most do not run them is the cost. $750+- just for the bolts. The clamp load is higher also so the rod needs to be reworked for the new bolt. Not a good idea just to put the bolts in and run with it.
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06-03-2014, 09:15 AM | #21 | |
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I have no idea what this all means and what is theory vs reality, but: When I see ECR for stock motor limits (available s/c kits) running we will say 8psi, at the 12.0, ECR is 18.5 (correct?) and some kits run to 8.5psi=18.9 ECR (correct?) and then using the VT3 setup of 650hp/12 psi (4.6l 10.0 cr) running 18.1 ECR for a 4.0L, 12psi 11.0CR= 19.9ECR (too high?) 12psi 10.5:1= 19.0 (still to high?) What i fear is that by not going to 4.6L and dropping to 10.0CR that one would lose more off boost power than desired. Not such a big deal when going to to larger CC. Where do you think the safe middle ground would be? |
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06-03-2014, 12:49 PM | #22 |
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