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06-18-2008, 12:05 AM | #23 | |
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06-18-2008, 12:14 AM | #24 |
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4 word review: It's so fucking smooth.
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06-18-2008, 01:56 AM | #25 | ||||
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P.S. On reflection I disagree with swamp in saying I begrudgingly like it, I have always been a champion for the technology and my only two gripes have been it's lack of involvement and the surge. The involvement thing is purely objective as not everyone will feel the same about this. And as for the surge, well again horses for courses what I may dislike another will enjoy though I doubt many will drive on S5 the majority of the time because the best will in the world the surge itself doesn't not feel real. By the way I spoke to the owner of the dealership after the test drive who happened to be the one who was at Germany for it's launch at the ring and gave me a full run-down on the surge in terms on use on a track. Some may know this and other might think this will happen but the surge stops when shifting in a corner, this is done for the very reason I thought at the start of this whole surge debate, the surge can unset the balance of car and on occasions could cause unwanted oversteer. Finally, I will hold total judgement on the surge until I get my own car pass the 1200mile service and finally open the taps for real, then I will see if it's a benefit to have over a system without it. |
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06-18-2008, 02:07 AM | #26 | ||
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Check your word choice you said it gets better close to full throttle. To you that means less surge, which is incorrect. My statement was a clarification and was perfectly accurate. Like I always say foot, the devil is in the details and diction is key.
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06-18-2008, 05:07 AM | #27 | |||
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Look at it another way, is it a good thing to have a possible break of traction when surface conditions are slippy..........? By the way Porsche are offering a similar surge with their new PDK, will my opinion change knowing this.............. I somehow doubt it. |
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06-18-2008, 05:37 AM | #28 |
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Love the manual personally, plus I like to rev the V8 on down shifts!
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06-18-2008, 05:42 AM | #29 |
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Footie
I must say two things before this descends into the usual slagging match that goes on for 8 pages. Firstly, don’t judge it until you have really been able to drive a car properly, and I don’t believe any test drive with a sales guy can be close to putting a couple of thousand km’s on a car yourself and getting to know the little nuances and behaviours of a car. I am fairly certain the surge is throttle dependant and when the throttle is pressed past the pressure point or close to redline the behaviour is different. Secondly as to the surge feeling fake or artificial. To me it actually feels exactly like the sensations you get in extreme performance driving. As I said above, when you think about it, in a manual car if you are upshifting most people will lift off the throttle while depressing the clutch and changing gear. This allows revs to drop before the new gear is engaged. When you think about what the DCT accomplishes i.e. changing gear while keeping your foot flat to the floor, its really quite amazing. And it does produce a sensation exactly like you would have in a manual if you shifted gears without lifting. Have you ever done this incidentally? Try it and see. Another thing it feels like so people can imagine it, is to visualise a performance heel and toe downshift. Have you ever over-revved while braking on a H&T downshift so that the engine speed is too high for the drivetrain in the current gear? You get this surging feeling as the engine causes the drivetrain to speed up. This is exactly what the “surge” feels like. Personally, I like it, and even if I was neutral on it, would think it was an acceptable side effect considering the performance of the transmission, which is up there with the best of these boxes currently available. Its certainly better than any of the VAG boxes (I have only tried these in the GTi and TT btw) and from what I hear is smoother than the Ferrari boxes and beats them hands down when it comes to daily grinding traffic. Mick |
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06-18-2008, 06:59 AM | #30 |
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DCT does this too........
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06-18-2008, 07:27 AM | #32 |
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Mick,
Of course I've power-shifted (that's what it's call where I come from) that is exactly how I described it to swamp when he asked me. As for H&T, come on where do you think I am from, I am not a young kid still wet behind the ears, heel and toe and left foot braking where a stable diet when I was young but now-a-days I prefer to take a less extreme approach to driving but don't think the old dog can't still run with the pack. I also agree that my comments can only be based on a relatively short test drive and better time would be needed to confirm whether what the surge felt like in different situations and at throttle positions and engine revs, but remember my comments were directed to the throttle input I was using and at less than total attack mode to me it felt artificial but then again that is why I said it may be better nearer the red line. It's a shame everyone seems to stick on the one negative I have to say about the transmission and gloss over all the other positive notes. I say already said it's better than DSG, I have always championed the technology and have even come round to the multi-modes to a degree but people still seem to only pick up on the negatives. Please re-read both my previous comments before the swamp one and see how good I rate it. |
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06-18-2008, 07:55 AM | #33 | |
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Just in case there was a misunderstanding.......I know you have probably done all this stuff and I am not suggesting you are wet behind the ears, it was more rhetorical for the others who may or may not yet have their cars to understand what it feels like and to give a bit of balance and help them make their decision. Also my reference to H&T was that the surge feels similar to a H&T downshift where you overrev the engine (and lets face it weve all done it). I was just trying to advance my theory of what the surge actually is.....and possibly add an additional facet to this debate about whether its a by-product of the design or deliberately added in. No offense or condescension was intended. Cheers Mick |
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06-18-2008, 08:02 AM | #34 | |
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I suspect I have to drive them both. But thanks footie for the review!
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06-18-2008, 08:12 AM | #35 |
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To all in doubt about the DCT, it was better than I expected and my expectations were already very high based on my DSG ownership. It ticks every box with the possible exception of involvement but as that is a very personal thing every one's opinion on this is different.
I can highly recommend it in the same way as I can highly recommend the manual as well, both are equally brilliant but for different reasons. |
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06-18-2008, 11:10 AM | #36 | ||
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Do recall that when DSC is on or in MDM the upset to the chassis and traction from the surge is pretty much eliminated. |
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06-18-2008, 11:13 AM | #37 | |
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06-18-2008, 02:02 PM | #38 | |
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06-18-2008, 02:13 PM | #39 | |
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I wouldn't disagree that Porsche will make it better than everyone else, it's usually the case with everything they do. But I still am not a fan of this surge at the moment and my brief test drive hasn't convinced me otherwise. P.S. It does seem to do it's shift a bit quicker than either the DSG and M-DCT after the paddle is flick, well based on this video and from memory of the other. |
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06-19-2008, 11:25 PM | #40 |
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I've never driven the F1 or the DCT but I have driven the M3 and SMG equipped M5 and M6. I can only imagine the DCT is brilliant. If I were going to track any car I would want the fastest robo-manual available. Perfect downshifts every time will make you go faster. You can shift a manual smooth perhaps but not that fast.
The idea that these transmissions make a 400+ horsepower car more accessible to people who can't drive is almost criminal. Driving around town I wanna execute downshifts myself for shiggles essentially. I want the DCT to go faster. |
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06-21-2008, 08:45 PM | #41 |
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Picked up the new car today, but I was sorry to see the old car go. I was a little worried about the sparkling graphite, but it looks great. I drove the SMG for 5 1/2 years and loved it. My early impressions of the DCT are that it is faster, using S4, which is what I used for the SMG, and much smoother. I do not like the lag off the line, but I think I just need to get used to it. Will get some pics.
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06-21-2008, 10:38 PM | #42 | |
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The Ferrari slips the clutch so much from a stop that it probably wears heavily from getting rolling. The DCT is smoother and doesn't need to rev the engine quite as much just to get rolling. I wish there was a setting to adjust how aggressively it slips the clutch... I think if i were driving the regular 6MT I wouldn't need to slip nearly that much to get rolling. There are so many benefits to DCT though so after 100 miles today I can say that I like it a lot |
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06-25-2008, 10:33 AM | #43 |
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Finally got to drive the M93 M3 M-DCT again today, only this time on my own.
Impression of the gearbox now that I got to use it to full throttle, impressive, very impressive. The shift lag does seem to decrease with throttle position and the surge does start to make a bit more sense. Didn't try LC because the occasion didn't arise due to traffic but I did get to sample the different mode more properly from S2~S5, S2 is great for normal what I call comfy driving, it still quicker than I could change myself but felt super smooth as did S3, the real surprise to me was I preferred S4 best of all, the surge was only really present with a decent amount of throttle but not enough to upset either the balance or how I felt about the experience, still disliked S5 but could now see why other may find it enjoyable and it's a great mode to show off to passengers if you know what I mean. Back the S4, the blip on downshift may be less than with S5 but for the road use it felt to me at least better suited. Of the D modes I still prefer either D2 or D3, all of the other don't suit automatic driving, in this mode one doesn't want to be hammering along that's what manual is for. I am now very happy with my decision even if it was sort of forced on me. |
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06-25-2008, 11:59 AM | #44 | |
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Do recall that I mentioned long ago that the lag is throttle dependent. It is obvious what is happening - if the system can guess the right next gear the lag will be almost non-existent. For example in 7th, 6th is always engaged so the lag is almost non-existent. My favorite modes for daily driving are also S4/D4, a perfect balance between comfort and aggressive. If you want that addictive wheel spin on WOT shifts S5 and S6 are your ONLY choices. |
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