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      08-18-2014, 12:49 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason2454 View Post
You know in a 6mt you can skip gears to? You can go 5 to 2.
Sure you can....just allot slower.
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      08-18-2014, 01:10 PM   #68
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I have no doubt in 10 years, the MT E9x M3 will be worth more than the DCT version.

While it is leaps and bounds over the the SMG, in that time period, there will be DCT v4.0 (who knows), whereas the MT will always be an MT. There will be a demand for it IMHO.
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      08-18-2014, 01:14 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
Sure you can....just allot slower.
Define "a lot". You mean fractions of a second
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      08-18-2014, 01:31 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Define "a lot". You mean fractions of a second
Could be tenths. Some manuals are better than others, obviously-- it's annoying when they don't like to be "rushed" or power-shifted. I had a '96 Nissan Z that shifted like butter 'til you tried to hurry it, then it fought back. The DCT will do full-throttle shifts quickly enough that even my slickest manual shifts seem interrupted in comparison. Even so, I'm still annoyed that manuals are already being dropped from high-end sports cars.
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      08-18-2014, 01:31 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Define "a lot". You mean fractions of a second
Fractions of a second makes a big difference in the performance car world...

Oh wait, I forgot MT owners don't care about fractions of a second...just connection with the car and having fun...
....... yet I am puzzled why they strive for more horse power by doing modifications like going catless, getting tunes and superchargers....when fractions of a second don't matter to them....
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      08-18-2014, 01:42 PM   #72
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Interestingly in the UK only a few hundred E9x M3s were manual while the rest were DCTs. Despite that, DCTs still fetch a premium over MTs.
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      08-18-2014, 02:32 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
Fractions of a second makes a big difference in the performance car world...

Oh wait, I forgot MT owners don't care about fractions of a second...just connection with the car and having fun...
....... yet I am puzzled why they strive for more horse power by doing modifications like going catless, getting tunes and superchargers....when fractions of a second don't matter to them....
Great post
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      08-18-2014, 03:58 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
dual is still faster and newer technology than the MT...this is what future buyers want.....
By future, do you mean the next couple years? If so, then I agree.

If by future you mean 10-20+ years, then I disagree. "Future" buyers won't care for the DCT anymore than they care for the SMG in the E46 M3. DCT's will be a standard option for Honda's and every other car available in the future. Manuals will have long been gone because of increased emission regulations and an ever pressing urge towards efficiency and self driving cars. I feel like these enthusiasts will likely want the most control possible to remind them of days long past and will prefer the "old school" 6 speed.

That's my theory anyway...
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      08-18-2014, 04:28 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
By future, do you mean the next couple years? If so, then I agree.

If by future you mean 10-20+ years, then I disagree. "Future" buyers won't care for the DCT anymore than they care for the SMG in the E46 M3. DCT's will be a standard option for Honda's and every other car available in the future. Manuals will have long been gone because of increased emission regulations and an ever pressing urge towards efficiency and self driving cars. I feel like these enthusiasts will likely want the most control possible to remind them of days long past and will prefer the "old school" 6 speed.

That's my theory anyway...
I disagree with that theory. And whereas economy commuter cars abandoned the manual for automatics due to fuel economy and overall efficiency, the performance world also has abandoned them because they simply aren't up to snuff anymore.

Future cars in Honda's category will be electric-driven, with 2 gears (get going and keep going) that are selected automatically by a self-driving computer while you take a nap or put on your makeup or whatever. Performance/luxury cars may have a small turbo petrol engine linked to the electric motor for more traditional driving fun. The i8 is a perfect example of a future car; the i division is now the BMW division to watch.

Anyway, the 6MT vs DCT discussion is a microcosm of the overall grand discourse between analog and digital.

The DCT is faster, but the manual is more engaging because you have a physical pedal. The turbo is faster and more practical, but NA is more exciting because you have to work to keep the revs up. The steering is more precise, but the hydraulic is more communicative. It goes on and on, you basically have to decide for yourself what kind of experience you are looking from your car.

For me personally, I like the DCT since it gives me more control than a manual and I don't miss the engagement factor of a pedal, I greatly enjoy the NA powerband and throttle response while being respectful of the turbo's capabilities, and am as rabidly and probably irrationally anti-electric steering as m3ray is rabid and irrational about the DCT.

To each his own.

Last edited by modkrazy; 08-18-2014 at 04:47 PM..
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      08-18-2014, 04:41 PM   #76
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I don't totally disagree with Rupe on this. As an example we purchased a '74 2002Tii last year after several years of research and shopping around. In that world, the MT is much more desirable. Granted the E9x M3 is a long way from that status but I do feel over the very long term the MT will be more desirable because of ease of repairing...
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      08-18-2014, 05:18 PM   #77
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This thread was resurrected from the dead... But here goes:

Some of us want a manual, just like some people want a certain something, and the other will not do.

I had a DCT in my first e9x M3.

This time around I wanted a manual. Just now, returning home, the manual felt right for me. So, there are those who simply want a manual.

Now, on the price, I did not notice a big difference in the used car prices for manuals vs DCT. Maybe 1k difference.

The biggest difference I continue to see stems from location, color, model e90 vs e92 vs e93, and year.

If the recent resurrector of this thread seeks to buy a used car, then looking and waiting for a deal is their best bet.

If people are trying to predict the value in their old ride 10 years from now, then look at the e46 m3 market or used Ferrari prices. Buyers favor the manual model due to the simplicity and also because automatics continue to improve, and autos later call for more costly repairs and just feel silly. SMG seems like a robotic proposition now... But a manual e46 will be pretty easy to maintain and will feel the same as when it was new.

The DCT will be antiquated in 10 years. Manuals are already antiquated yet there is no additional risk on electronics and expensive rebuilds.

The price differential will eventually be a wash, and it may be even easier to sell a manual in the future.
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      08-18-2014, 05:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
Fractions of a second makes a big difference in the performance car world...

Oh wait, I forgot MT owners don't care about fractions of a second...just connection with the car and having fun...
....... yet I am puzzled why they strive for more horse power by doing modifications like going catless, getting tunes and superchargers....when fractions of a second don't matter to them....
6sp owners just got rekt.
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      08-18-2014, 05:59 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
Fractions of a second makes a big difference in the performance car world...

Oh wait, I forgot MT owners don't care about fractions of a second...just connection with the car and having fun...
....... yet I am puzzled why they strive for more horse power by doing modifications like going catless, getting tunes and superchargers....when fractions of a second don't matter to them....
I don't know about you, but I don't drive around with a stopwatch so no one is timing my driving or shifting. People modify their cars mainly for pleasure and not to hit some performance timing benchmark. Sure there are some who are track rats which is awesome, but the vast majority are not. Surely you understand this and are presumably trolling per usual...

Whether driving on a track or just running to the grocery store, I would imagine a catless tune or supercharger adds all that much more fun to the M3 experience, regardless if you drive a 6mt or auto.
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      08-18-2014, 10:21 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
I don't know about you, but I don't drive around with a stopwatch so no one is timing my driving or shifting. People modify their cars mainly for pleasure and not to hit some performance timing benchmark. Sure there are some who are track rats which is awesome, but the vast majority are not. Surely you understand this and are presumably trolling per usual...

Whether driving on a track or just running to the grocery store, I would imagine a catless tune or supercharger adds all that much more fun to the M3 experience, regardless if you drive a 6mt or auto.
I fail to see why an apposing view point to yours (which the majority of DCT owners seem to agree with ) is trolling...
However, "per usual" your always right....
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      08-19-2014, 06:05 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
I fail to see why an apposing view point to yours (which the majority of DCT owners seem to agree with ) is trolling...
However, "per usual" your always right....
There is no right or wrong when it comes to choosing a transmission although you seem to think there is. To you, fun or simply personal preference is irrelevant. The auto shifts milliseconds faster than the 6mt thus that makes it the only suitable choice.

Trolling is you harping on the point in repeated threads that the auto is so much faster than 6mt and anyone who chooses the 6mt must not care at all about performance and is some kind of moron. I'm paraphrasing here but I think that's the gist of it.

You even stated that it is pointless to modify your car if you have a 6mt because if you truly wanted the car to be faster you would have chosen the auto instead. Of course this idea is ridiculous...
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      08-19-2014, 07:53 AM   #82
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All I can say is that the first thing people ask me when they find out I have a MT is "do you want to sell it?"

I'm told that the MTs are harder to find, which may help keep the value higher.
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      08-19-2014, 08:19 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3-S65 View Post
Fractions of a second makes a big difference in the performance car world...

Oh wait, I forgot MT owners don't care about fractions of a second...just connection with the car and having fun...
....... yet I am puzzled why they strive for more horse power by doing modifications like going catless, getting tunes and superchargers....when fractions of a second don't matter to them....
That's so stupid to assume that. My car is a street car. And like Gator said, I'm not out there to be the fastest. Hell I know I would lose to a tuned 335i. For me personally, I went out looking for MT. It took me 6 damn months to find my car, because I was picky about the color, CF roof and MT. If I didn't care, I found plenty of DCT E92's I could have purchased months prior.

While I love to rev the hell out of my car, I don't drive it like a maniac. For the 75% that it gets driven normally, I find MT more fun. Even if it's 30-40mph.

I mod because it's hobby (a stupid one, I admit). I enjoy going catless because it sounds BETTER than stock. Not to mention we don't have yearly inspections, so it's very little hassle to me. And one of the best part I enjoy about my tune is that it has a Servotronic mod, which in itself is worth the price right there. I didn't put Swift springs to chop of seconds at the track. I did it because it looks nice and enjoy the way the car feels.

If all you care about are fractions of a second, why are you not in a DCT F80/2 then?

Good day sir.

P.S. I'm not even sure why I'm even talking about this. It's not like a light bulb will go off in my head and I'll think DCT is the right trans for me all of a sudden. Or vice versa, I don't expect you to sell your DCT car and go MT either.
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      08-19-2014, 09:14 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I have no doubt in 10 years, the MT E9x M3 will be worth more than the DCT version.

While it is leaps and bounds over the the SMG, in that time period, there will be DCT v4.0 (who knows), whereas the MT will always be an MT. There will be a demand for it IMHO.
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      08-19-2014, 09:33 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
There is no right or wrong when it comes to choosing a transmission although you seem to think there is. To you, fun or simply personal preference is irrelevant. The auto shifts milliseconds faster than the 6mt thus that makes it the only suitable choice.

Trolling is you harping on the point in repeated threads that the auto is so much faster than 6mt and anyone who chooses the 6mt must not care at all about performance and is some kind of moron. I'm paraphrasing here but I think that's the gist of it.

You even stated that it is pointless to modify your car if you have a 6mt because if you truly wanted the car to be faster you would have chosen the auto instead. Of course this idea is ridiculous...
Actually I like both transmissions, I have commented that I do. So once again your wrong...

Troll? The DCT and MT topic is the most highly debated and "harped on" topic on this forum with some very strong opinions coming from both camps. My opinion was simply developed based on all the negative feedback I read from the MT crowd regarding the DCT....so if I am trolling then 50% of this forum is trolling...

What is it with you? if someone doesn't agree with you, you immediately become hostile ....calling them a "troll", and stating their opinion is "ridiculous" .... If you don't like my opinion
( because it does not agree with your superior opinion) I would suggest not coming on a forum, because forums are filled with opinions....

Last edited by M3-S65; 08-19-2014 at 09:50 AM..
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      08-19-2014, 11:28 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
There is no right or wrong when it comes to choosing a transmission although you seem to think there is. To you, fun or simply personal preference is irrelevant. The auto shifts milliseconds faster than the 6mt thus that makes it the only suitable choice.
I hate to break it to you, but its a bit faster than that even. Couple the S65's narrow powerband in with the 6 vs 7 gears and you've got an even bigger difference. Overall the DCT cars generally trap 2-3mph more than a 6MT car, they not only stay in the powerband better but they shift 10x faster and more accurately. That is a remarkable difference. 2-3 mph is a good 2-3 car-lengths at the end of the 1/4 mile.

I love driving my 6MT, but I'm not going to try and minimize the objective differences between the two transmissions; the reason I got the 6MT is subjective.
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      08-19-2014, 11:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgrinavi View Post
All I can say is that the first thing people ask me when they find out I have a MT is "do you want to sell it?"
No they don't. There's so many 6MTs for sale right now in FL, it's not even funny. There's more MTs for sale right now on autotrader in Florida. Why? Because the DCT cars are getting picked up faster and the 6MT cars sit.
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      08-19-2014, 11:36 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
For me personally, I went out looking for MT. It took me 6 damn months to find my car, because I was picky about the color, CF roof and MT. If I didn't care, I found plenty of DCT E92's I could have purchased months prior.
This exactly describes what I went thorough looking for my e92 as well.
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