BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2010, 08:37 AM   #89
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
No one is disagreeing that weight isn't important, especially me but I was only stating that it's in a list of important things to improve lap times. You quoted a Lotus 7 but there is far more than just the weight that make it so special on a track, stuff like it's width in relation to it's height and wheelbase and it's CoG all of which when combined with it's weight make it an incredibly gifted trackday car.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 09:36 AM   #90
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
The cayman doesnt need a better or equal power to weight to keep up with the m3. Fact is, even with the disadvantage in power to weight, the cayman S is neck and neck with the more powerful M3 on the track. So the cayman S at a power to weight of 9.375 (3000 lbs/320 hp) is keeping pace with a car with a power to weight of 8.795 (3650 lbs/415 hp). Pretty damn good for an entry level car.
Losing 250-300 lbs in the M3 is much harder than adding HP in a cayman. Fact remains, Porsche HOLDS THE CAR BACK ON PURPOSE. So Porsche lowest level coupe keeps up with BMWs BEST M car...hmm. If you want to say 'lets see what the m3 does with 300 lbs less (with every other car staying the same of course)"...Im going to say why dont we see how badly the Cayman S would MURDER and UTTERLY EMBARASS the M3 (and every other car) with the 997S engine... what about if it had the 997.2 GT3 engine, not a single car out there would touch it.
The M3 barely beat a 997S that wasnt being driven at nearly full potential, and certainly not as the same amount the M3 was. I would hardly call a .2 and .4 difference decimating any car. Fact is, on 99.9% of tracks, the 997S IS faster, no question about it. Go look at fastest laps, the facts lie in the numbers, and the 997S holds a 1-2 second advantage on nearly every track on there (except the VIR test).



+1...the driver is just as important as the car.
I disagree with your comment "So Porsche lowest level coupe keeps up with BMWs BEST M car...hmm". it is like saying the cheap american C6 z06 spanks porsche best 997.1 gt3 or turbo on the track, straight line, whatever on good year all season tires at half price. m3 and cayman s are two very different car. or a cheap tune to sti or evo would spank the 911 s or cayman s on the track all day.

i guarantee the price of the cayman will go up significantly if they put a bigger enginer in it. so for the price which is comparable or more expensive than the m3, it is overpriced and under power and not faster despite you have to give up the daily practicality.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:32 AM   #91
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
+1...Or for those who parade about how the m3 is so fast when they dont even own one (nor have even owned an M car at all), and probably havnt even been to the track before either.
I noticed in lot of your posts, you sound pretty ignorant because you owned lot of Porsche and bmw. I mean not everyone has daddy that owns porsche dealership to get everything at discount like you right? also who know if you paid cash for your cars or lease on short term thus why you changed car every 6 months or so like you stated Just trying to say don't judge/disregard people based on what car they own.

How often do you go to the track yourself in a year? 99.9% of people don't track their cars or maybe a few times a year and even on the track, the m3 can hang with the more track focus cayman s or 911 s. So mostly cars are used for street. People buy car based on practically, look, bang for the buck, performance. In this contest, cayman s or 911/s are no match for the m3 in the look, bang for the buck, and practicality. the stock m3 looks so much better than both cayman s or base 911/s and I'm sure many here would agree. Just look at this video for the truth
. I cannot see how a base 911 is better looking than the m3 in this video (not to mention the amazing fun drift you can do in the m3, not so easy/smooth in the 911).. the cayman is even uglier than the 911 IMO. I've seen countless on the street and I have never been impressed by the look of the cayman or base 911/s. Exception to those that looks good are 997 gt3/gt3 rs/turbo/gt2 and you are talking about 100-200k cars here, so they better look good with aggressive rims, body kit and wing, big bbk, carbon seat, etc.

My point is base 911/s and cayman s are way over price when you compare them to the m3. Especially when most people start counting the look when purchase a car, it is no contest. Nothing touch the m3 at 60k including offer from Porsche. Porche makes the highest profit because they are way over price.

I know you have said many time before the cayman s feel better. sure, you can do that with an m3 too. You stated the z4m was very close to the cayman s in feel in another thread. It is mainly due to the weight and aggresive suspension tuning of the cayman s and z4m and the cayman s is lighter as well. You can do that to an m3 to get that feel but keep in mind the stock m3 is tuned toward gt than track and gt is better for street. e.g. remove rear seat, light weight recaro pp, carbon roof, light weight battery, lightweight forged 18, bbk, big sway, coilover, remove sound insulation, and you have some serious track machine with even more direct feel than the z4m or cayman s.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:40 AM   #92
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
No one is disagreeing that weight isn't important, especially me but I was only stating that it's in a list of important things to improve lap times. You quoted a Lotus 7 but there is far more than just the weight that make it so special on a track, stuff like it's width in relation to it's height and wheelbase and it's CoG all of which when combined with it's weight make it an incredibly gifted trackday car.
Those you mentioned are pretty minor compare to weight.

weight is the most important in a track car. you want to race on a track, first thing first is drop the weight. the less weight the better.

you accelerate faster, corner faster, brake and suspension don't have to work as hard compare to a heavier car. I say weight is the killer.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:42 AM   #93
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
+1...Or for those who parade about how the m3 is so fast when they dont even own one (nor have even owned an M car at all), and probably havnt even been to the track before either.
I noticed in lot of your posts, you sound pretty ignorant because you owned lot of Porsche and bmw. I mean not everyone has daddy that owns porsche dealership to get everything at discount like you right? also who know if you paid cash for your cars or lease on short term thus why you changed car every 6 months or so like you stated Just trying to say don't judge/disregard people based on what car they own.

How often do you go to the track yourself in a year? 99.9% of people don't track their cars or maybe a few times a year and even on the track, the m3 can hang with the more track focus cayman s or 911 s. So mostly cars are used for street. People buy car based on practically, look, bang for the buck, performance. In this contest, cayman s or 911/s are no match for the m3 in the look, bang for the buck, and practicality. the stock m3 looks so much better than both cayman s or base 911/s and I'm sure many here would agree. Just look at this video for the truth
. I cannot see how a base 911 is better looking than the m3 in this video (not to mention the amazing fun drift you can do in the m3, not so easy/smooth in the 911).. the cayman is even uglier than the 911 IMO. I've seen countless on the street and I have never been impressed by the look of the cayman or base 911/s. Exception to those that looks good are 997 gt3/gt3 rs/turbo/gt2 and you are talking about 100-200k cars here, so they better look good with aggressive rims, body kit and wing, big bbk, carbon seat, etc.

My point is base 911/s and cayman s are way over price when you compare them to the m3. Especially when most people start counting the look when purchase a car, it is no contest. Nothing touch the m3 at 60k including offer from Porsche.

I know you have said many time before the cayman s feel better. sure, bmw can do it too as you stated the z4m was very close to the cayman s in feel. It is mainly due to the weight and aggresive suspension tuning. You can do that to an m3 too but keep in mind the stock m3 is tuned toward gt than track and gt is better for street. e.g. remove rear seat, light weight recaro pp, carbon roof, light weight battery, lightweight forged 18, bbk, big sway, coilover, remove sound insulation, and you have some serious track machine with even more direct feel than the z4m or cayman s.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:45 AM   #94
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
One could easily argue that the M3 is far more 'track' focused in it's development than the Cayman S is. It's the one with the CF roof, the proper LSD, the tweaked power steering system, the extensive use of alloy, where as the Cayman S is simply a 2 seater coupe with no fancy diff, no exotic panel materials, just good old fashioned steel.

One could also argue that the Cayman didn't need any of this simply because it was a 2 seater coupe which weighed so much less to start with.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:46 AM   #95
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
Those you mentioned are pretty minor compare to weight.

weight is the most important in a track car. you want to race on a track, first thing first is drop the weight. the less weight the better.

you accelerate faster, corner faster, brake and suspension don't have to work as hard compare to a heavier car. I say weight is the killer.
Oh you are so so wrong.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:48 AM   #96
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Oh you are so so wrong.
not really. lotus is a good example of how much weight can do. it has a yota econobox engine for your reference.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:51 AM   #97
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
One could easily argue that the M3 is far more 'track' focused in it's development than the Cayman S is. It's the one with the CF roof, the proper LSD, the tweaked power steering system, the extensive use of alloy, where as the Cayman S is simply a 2 seater coupe with no fancy diff, no exotic panel materials, just good old fashioned steel.

One could also argue that the Cayman didn't need any of this simply because it was a 2 seater coupe which weighed so much less to start with.
it doesn't need to because it is a smaller car and way lighter. agan lotus is a good example. but this just show how overprice porsche is. cost not much to build, but charge customers alot for what they get.

just because a car has lsd, cf roof doesn't mean it is track focus. track focus cars don't have 4 adult size seats to begin with.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 10:58 AM   #98
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
not really. lotus is a good example of how much weight can do. it has a yota econobox engine for your reference.
Please reread what I am saying, center of gravity being settle very low means roll resistance is low and suspension and rubber can work more efficiently, width in relation to height and wheelbase, also resist roll and add grip.

Looked around the paddock at a proper race meet lately, have you see too many proper racing cars that don't follow those principles.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:08 AM   #99
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Very odd that the entry speed on all of the main difficult sections showed the Carrera S to be greater than the Cayman S. That is not the usual way to drive a 911.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:11 AM   #100
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Sorry, but to say the M3 isnt track focused is an insult to the M division. Thats their goal when they set out to do what they do on these cars. Reworking ~70% of the basic 3 series, suspension, engine, brakes, center of gravity, weight, etc is 100% in an effort to make it a track focused car.
My point exactly and the sheer fact that it still performs it's most basic of duties like ferry the family about so efficiently is proof positive of how great M-Division and the M3 are.

My god, I praised the M3 ................ call the papers, it's a red letter day.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:14 AM   #101
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Lets get this straight. The Z4M is THE most HARDCORE car bmw has brought to the US. It feels close to the cayman S, but still doesnt truly succeed as it never will, front engine vs mid engine. You also cant do it to an M3 easily. the m3 gts is a fully stripped out car and still weighs about 3300 lbs, so its not that easy to do on any m3 at all, and anyone who knows weight reduction would agree. Plus, if you did all that you are suggesting to an m3, it would no longer succeed at being what its good at; a gt car offers a combinatin of a lot of different aspects of sports/luxury cars. And NO, it would NOT have more direct feel than a cayman S or Z4M just because of weight, which is still heavier than either car. Feel comes from a combination of things (not just weight). Steering/rack, suspension, layout, etc. NO BMW will EVER feel like a Cayman S, unless bmw comes out with a 3000 lb mid engined car, period.
Additionally, what you are saying to do will cost a good chunk of money. Lets list it all:

Recaro pole positions ~1500/piece X2 = 3000
Lightweight forged 18's ~5000 with tires
Full BBK at least 5K
Coilovers ~3K

So youre talking about at least 15K in mods that will MAYBE make the car 3400 lbs (heavy), and with the cost of a new m3, plus the 15K, you could easily go buy yourself a 996 GT3 for 70K and have a MUCH BETTER track beast.
ok so now you have to bring in porche track machine 996 gt3 into the table, let take a used e46 m3 for less than 20k in this comparsion. it weight less than 3500lbs in base stock form. if you remove rear seat, recaro pp front, light weight battery, bbk, 18 rims, carbon roof, etc for 15k in mod or even cheaper if you get used parts. you can definetely drop the weight down to 3200lbs using those part on the e46 m3. you can drop even more if you remove air con, radio, insulation, some members have even drop it below 3000lbs since it is a track car. so total of 35k and you can basically hang with the gt3. the e46 m3 csl can hang with the gt3 despite heavier and less hp. There is no reason a strip out base e46 m3 with heavy mod cannot hang with the 996 gt3 on the track. there is 35k left, bring it to horse power freak for 600+ hp or swap a used s65 v8 with full bolt on for almost 500hp into the e46 m3 and it would wave the 70k gt3 bye bye.

the gts is 330lbs because it is still bigger than the 997 gt3 in dimension. Simple as that. If it can hang with the 997 gt3 on the track as bmw claimed, then that is impressive.

btw, none of the car you mention gt car with 4 adult seats. corvette grandsport and porsche rs spyder. So yes, none of those touch the m3 at 60k if you consider everything as I stated in my previous post.

Last edited by graider; 01-08-2010 at 11:34 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:19 AM   #102
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Please reread what I am saying, center of gravity being settle very low means roll resistance is low and suspension and rubber can work more efficiently, width in relation to height and wheelbase, also resist roll and add grip.

Looked around the paddock at a proper race meet lately, have you see too many proper racing cars that don't follow those principles.
I know exactly what you are saying, but I think weight is still the maiin issue when it come to race car. hence you don't see race car that weight 3000lbs.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:25 AM   #103
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
To say the M3 isnt track focused is an insult to the M division. Thats their goal when they set out to do what they do on these cars. Reworking ~70% of the basic 3 series, suspension, engine, brakes, center of gravity, weight, etc is 100% in an effort to make it a track focused car.

Do you think Ferrari's and Lamborghini's are overpriced? Because a ZR1 can also spank them around too. Do you now realize that supply and demand affects the price of a car. If Porsche/Ferrari planned to make ~100K cars like bmw wants to do with the M3, they could EASILY sell them for under 100K, however, they dont. They only produce a couple thousand of them and you need to cover R&D over a smaller amount of cars.
Sorry, but the m3 is not track focus. it is a gt car with more sporty nature which is why many love the m3. It has a combination of everything. the m3 gts is track focus. m3 csl is track focus.


yes, ferrari and lambo are overprice. you just point out exactly why they are overprice "need to cover R&D" and that is exactly my point. Problem is I think for the pedigree, look, status some of the ferrari and lambo are justify for the rich. but the rich wont' buy cayman s or base 911 and that is the problem.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:29 AM   #104
MikeG_C63_AMG
First Lieutenant
MikeG_C63_AMG's Avatar
10
Rep
378
Posts

Drives: 2009 Eurocharged C63 AMG
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Hoboken,NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
My point exactly and the sheer fact that it still performs it's most basic of duties like ferry the family about so efficiently is proof positive of how great M-Division and the M3 are.

My god, I praised the M3 ................ call the papers, it's a red letter day.
I think someone hacked Footie's account and got his password.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 11:32 AM   #105
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
My point exactly and the sheer fact that it still performs it's most basic of duties like ferry the family about so efficiently is proof positive of how great M-Division and the M3 are.

My god, I praised the M3 ................ call the papers, it's a red letter day.
again you are wrong as the m3 is not track focus.

btw, i never say anything about you praise the m3 or not. so not sure why you feel that way.

It seem you want to defend shift@red love for porsche than anything. didn't you read his comments about gt3 is the best car ever and he would pick it over the scuderia? lol
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 12:43 PM   #106
graider
Colonel
graider's Avatar
35
Rep
2,406
Posts

Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
And my point is well proven. Thanks because you helped prove it. You can ALWAYS buy something cheaper and mod it to make a track car out of it. why not just buy a used miata for 5K and then mod that?
Another point. the m3 csl might hang with a GT3, but thats because if you look at weight, the 996 GT3 was 3042 lbs, the cls, 3075, so a 33 lb difference is neglibable, at best. and the 996 gt3 only had 20 hp more, which on the track is nearly negligible also unless there is a long straight where the 996 GT3 is MUCH faster on the straights and has a much stronger top end.

GTR is 4 seater and for the same money as an m3 vert, tell me how their performance compares.
997.1 turbo and gt3 don't fare any better vs the gtr either? Did I read somewhere 997.2 turbo with pdk still having problem keeping up with gozilla on the track and it was done by independent mag? LOL

I think you confused yourself after all this discussion because it looked like you value a car based solely on track performance and nothing else. I said it before and i will say it again. combine everything for a street car, cayman s and base 911 is totally over price compare to a 60k m3 and cannot see myself paying for those two over the m3. If it is a turbo, gt3, gt3 rs, etc then that's a different story but I think the turbo is also overprice.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 01:02 PM   #107
M&M
Captain
M&M's Avatar
South Africa
113
Rep
750
Posts

Drives: Boosted Beemers!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
No one is disagreeing that weight isn't important, especially me but I was only stating that it's in a list of important things to improve lap times. You quoted a Lotus 7 but there is far more than just the weight that make it so special on a track, stuff like it's width in relation to it's height and wheelbase and it's CoG all of which when combined with it's weight make it an incredibly gifted trackday car.
Yes sir, you are 100% correct. All those factors come into play. But (to paraphrase you), weight is KING. If you had a list of actions and could only do one, it would be weight. Weight affects so many other areas like Graider said. And your power-to-weight goes up as an added bonus.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 01:31 PM   #108
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
1075
Rep
8,009
Posts

Drives: i4M50
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: No where fast

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M View Post
Yes sir, you are 100% correct. All those factors come into play. But (to paraphrase you), weight is KING. If you had a list of actions and could only do one, it would be weight. Weight affects so many other areas like Graider said. And your power-to-weight goes up as an added bonus.
Go back a few of my posts and re-read what I said, when all else is the same then weight will make the difference, it's the most logical step when changing a stock car to a track car. But if you had endless amounts of money or were developing from scratch then weight as I said is among a list of things which will have a similar effect.

Oh and yes this is racing experience I am talking about.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 01:33 PM   #109
swamp2
Lieutenant General
swamp2's Avatar
United_States
609
Rep
10,407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M View Post
I don't know if you are aware of this, but there are corners on a circuit. It's not an acceleration race. Yes I know all about F=MA but the momentum in the braking zone & in the corner are critical to your laptime. If you are heavier (and travelling faster) you will have more momentum when you step on the brakes. And more momentum into the turns, causing you to lose grip. You need to scrub off this momentum with a heavy car & that takes time & energy.

Anyone that has ever done circuit racing will tell you that maintaining speed through the turns is the key for setting a fast lap. On our local Formula 1 circuit we have class C Fiat Palio 1.6 cars lapping faster than M3's. And no, their power to weight ratio's are nothing like the M3's. But Kyalami is a high speed circuit and they can keep a lot of momentum through the Esses & sweeps due to their lower mass.
I'm well aware of what you mention, thanks very much. I'm not an ignorant drag race only mentality sort of guy. I've been on the track myself many times and understand both the driving and the physics. You clearly wouldn't argue that giving the same Fiat a big bump in power, so that its terminal speeds along straights before braking zones would be much higher, wouldn't also very much improve its lap times, would you?

Here is a task for you: Please look up the lengthy posts here on the forum on Nurburgring/power to weight/regression. I am not denying the importance of low weight. However, in the end, in the world of street cars (and exotic street cars) power to weight is by far the single most important factor, track and strip. It also doesn't really matter how tight the track is. Of course when things get as tight at auto-x there will be some exceptions with very light cars with very sticky rubber, etc.

Now that being said there will of course be exceptions to this "rule" about power to weight. You can see some exceptions in the regression analysis itself. However, comparing a dedicated, highly modified race car to a production sports sedan is not a good way to understand the physics based essence of a problem. In this case the tires and radical suspension tuning also play huge roles in addition to the power to weight. Such radical changes require an entirely different group of cars to be examined together with regression. Guess what you will then find.... power to weight rules.
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2010, 01:59 PM   #110
TLud
Colonel
TLud's Avatar
United_States
108
Rep
2,279
Posts

Drives: '12 Golf R
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Texas

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M View Post
Yes sir, you are 100% correct. All those factors come into play. But (to paraphrase you), weight is KING. If you had a list of actions and could only do one, it would be weight. Weight affects so many other areas like Graider said. And your power-to-weight goes up as an added bonus.
Exactly, weight is the common denominator in most of the factors that have been discussed.
__________________
'09 Interlagos Blue E92 M3 (sold to a good home)
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST